June 13, 2024

Getting into the Lore with Nate Amos from This is Lorelei

June 13, 2024/ Elizabeth Handgun

Nate Amos is the multi-talented multi-instrumentalist known for his involvement in Water From Your Eyes and This is Lorelei (projects he refers to as “Water” and “Lorelei”). I have followed his projects for years, with the most recent Water From Your Eyes record, Everyone’s Crushed, topping my personal album of the year list. This is Lorelei is Amos’ solo project, and his transcendent new record, Box for Buddy, Box for Star, is out June 14th and deals with themes of loneliness, recovery, and aching longing, adorned with innovative and beautiful music.

During my first listen of the album, I was overwhelmed by the beauty, innovation, and vulnerability of the music, and felt I had to speak with the person who made it. In anticipation of the record, I spoke with Amos over Zoom about the process of writing and performing this music. The conversation has been edited for clarity.

SWIM INTO THE SOUND: You’ve had a whirlwind year.

Nate Amos: Yeah.

SWIM: Last year, you released one of the year’s most acclaimed records with Everyone’s Crushed. You’ve been touring back to back, dropping new songs from both projects along the way, and you’re set to release yet another best record of the year. How are you feeling?

AMOS: I’m feeling good! It’s funny how with [This Is] Lorelei as a project, everything used to come out immediately as soon as it was done, so this is a pretty weird experience, waiting while it slowly rolls out. I’m used to that with Water From Your Eyes at this point, but not with Lorelei. The first year I finished the album without it coming out, it was something I thought about every day, and now it’s something I keep forgetting is happening.

SWIM: You’ve referred to the This is Lorelei project as a sort of diary, did that play into the creation of this album?

AMOS: Yeah, I mean it’s always kind of been equally diary and song study stuff. I write the lyrics by myself, so it inevitably tends to be a little more personal, but also, as a project, it’s just a lower-pressure arena to try different things out, at least for now. So there’s a little bit of the diary thing, but in the past, Lorelei has been very informal in terms of how I’ve worked on it. And this was all still in my bedroom, with no real plan. I feel like this album has set a higher bar for stuff that would end up on it. Normally an album would be all of the sixteen songs that I was able to make in ten days or something, whereas this album was ten of sixty or seventy songs that I wrote.

SWIM: Really?!

AMOS: Yeah, and some of it should never come out. Some of it has already come out because this was made in May to late July or August of 2022, so anything that came out on the Lorelei Spotify or whatever starting in summer 2022 is actually stuff that was written for and cut from this album.

SWIM: Okay, so “Bring Back My Dog” was originally gonna be on it? That’s one of my favorites. It’s so crazy that you decided to cut that!

AMOS: I mean, it’s more like once all the songs were done, part of it was figuring out what songs I thought were good enough for it, and the other one was figuring out what kind of character the album was trying to be. And the “Bring Back My Dog” song, I just kind of couldn’t–it had kind of a different vibe to it.

There were two songs on that EP… well, let me think, there were like two days when four songs got made. Two of them ended up on that EP, and two of them ended up on the album. I was also like, “Why shouldn’t this be on the album?” It just didn’t feel right. At one point, the album was like… I had to let go of a lot because it was 32 tracks at one point, and it was so, so long. And I was trying to figure out how to make it work, and at one point, had a voice memo phone recording explaining why the album’s so long and apologizing for it, and I was like, “This is ridiculous, I should just chill out and choose a group of songs that works,” and make an album.

SWIM: So it was a very intentional winnowing down.

AMOS: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SWIM: You’re a multi-instrumentalist, and on this album and for previous EPs you’ve released, you use a lot of instruments that aren’t typically in the rock suite. On this one, I caught string samples, piano, chiptune synths, and I thought I heard a child’s xylophone in there, too. Is that right?

AMOS: Let me think. Okay, so the thing that sounds kind of like a xylophone? That’s a toy piano that goes on throughout the song “Where’s Your Love Now.” So that’s just a phone recording of me playing around on one that I looped. I’m trying to think of chiptune stuff.

SWIM: Maybe it was just sped up.

AMOS: I’m trying to remember. There’s a lot of sampling stuff. Even though the album is way more straightforward than Water From Your Eyes, there’s still kind of a way I put things together. There are a lot of samples, loops, and instruments that I can’t play by myself, like orchestral string instruments and wind instruments.

SWIM: Makes sense. Do you have a favorite instrumental moment on this album that might be hard to catch on the first listen?

AMOS: I got a lot. It’s funny because I’ve listened to this album again recently, and now it feels different. I like the second-to-last song, “Two Legs,” a lot. There’s a song called “My Boy Limbo” that has an almost messed-up-sounding instrumental thing that I like.

That was kind of one of the challenges with this project because I was trying not to go nuts with cool sounds and Easter eggs; the whole idea was to really hone it in to be more about the song than the production, which I felt [was] something that had gotten–not lost in things I’ve done in the past, but because I enjoy music production and am a nerd, I would end up just thinking about that more than the writing itself. This album was definitely an attempt to A) worry about the content more than the sound, and B) focus on the individual songs rather than the overall concept, and have it be a cohesive album but very much a set of ten individual songs that don’t really rely on each other, but make each other stronger.

SWIM: That makes a lot of sense. I was listening to “Two Legs” again this morning, it’s so, so beautiful, and the lyrics are so vulnerable. It’s a little bit reminiscent of Elliott Smith in terms of the melody and also just the abject sadness. Is it hard being frank about heartache?

AMOS: Yes. But again, with this album, it was funny because there is a lot of earnestness to the lyrical content of the album, but part of the idea–or almost part of the bit, dare I say, was to zone in on these classic singer-songwriter archetypes in a way where the subject can relate to something I feel. But it’s more of like an exercise in writing that particular kind of song because that particular kind of song is this almost a standardized thing that has been attempted by all sorts of people over the evolution of pop music. Maybe it’s a combination of different things too, because it’s got some weird, almost Disney-like lullaby stuff going on.

So it’s weird sometimes… it feels like a little exposed, but also I feel like maybe even if no one else knows, to me, there’s like a character that I’m playing on this album, so there are elements of me in it, but it also doesn’t feel entirely connected to me. Not that that song–every word in that song is true in one way or another, but something about participating in a tradition that belongs to so many people, you can reframe it in a way that feels a little less personal. I don’t know if that makes sense.

SWIM: Sure, absolutely. It has a core of truth, as Greta Gerwig would say. But the growth is maybe something embellished or imaginary. Speaking of operating in a tradition, the first song, “Angel’s Eye”… a country song. You write a magnificent country song, I was really surprised by that.

AMOS: Oh, thank you.

SWIM: Why did you choose to start the record off with that one?

AMOS: It just kind of made sense. So, that song was later on in the recording process. By the time it was written, there had already been a couple of versions of the album that I had thought were finished, but then I took it apart, and honestly, I really liked that one. It didn’t feel like it would work anywhere other than the beginning, and I didn’t have a first track that I was really attached to at that point. Then I tried it as the opener, and it was kind of like, “Yeah, okay, that’s how it’s supposed to be.”

SWIM: You sing it in two registers, almost as two voices, in two separate worlds.

AMOS: Yeah, it’s a duet.

SWIM: So why did you choose to sing it alone?

AMOS: Because I was alone.

[laughter]

AMOS: I like the idea… that’s something that shows up in at least two places on this album, where I am playing two different vocalists, essentially. And also I thought it would be funny. That is a very earnest song, and I do like it a lot, but it’s about an alien abducting a cowboy, and the alien and the cowboy falling in love, and then the alien has to drop the cowboy back off, and they’re both kind of like “what the fuck is this?”

SWIM: Wow, I thought it was about a ghost or an angel, actually, so the angel’s eye is a tractor beam?

AMOS: Kind of, essentially. I don’t know, I don’t have all the lore. [laughter] When the song’s actually being sung, the higher-pitched voice is the angel and the lower-pitched one is the cowboy, and the cowboy’s just kinda yelling at the sky.

SWIM: Yeah. Do you think aliens are real?

AMOS: I don’t know if I’m qualified to argue that anything is real. I think that the fact that we’re so sure about what’s going on to ourselves just means there’s a lot of stuff we don’t understand. I don’t know if I believe in aliens, necessarily, but I do believe we have no clue what’s going on.

SWIM: That’s a balanced take, I think.

AMOS: It’s more fun to think that way, I don’t know. I love conspiracy theories and alien content, and I don’t know how seriously I take it. And I don’t know how much it matters; it makes more sense to me than a lot of things people spend their time doing.

SWIM: I think my grandmother saw a UFO in Wisconsin in the ‘60s.

AMOS: Really?

SWIM: I think the government is hiding stuff from us.

AMOS: I’m about it. I’m here for it. I want to know.

SWIM: Same! Back to music…

AMOS: Okay, if we have to.

SWIM: Have you considered forming a country band or a country project?

AMOS: I grew up playing bluegrass music. My father is a bluegrass musician. So that music is very deeply ingrained in me, and I really do love country music, but no, I’ve never thought of starting a country band. There’s never been any long-term, consistent band for Lorelei just because, stylistically, it’s kind of all over the place. So it’s just been easier for me to figure it out show by show. But I’ve been playing with Al [Nardo] and Bailey [Wollowitz], who also play Water From Your Eyes live.

SWIM: The drummer?

AMOS: Yeah, Bailey plays drums, and Al plays bass in Lorelei and guitar in Water.

SWIM: A lot of your songs mention airports and foreign countries, are those taken from your experiences touring? You talked about this album as being from the perspective of a character.

AMOS: I mean yes and no; again, it’s like I was definitely in an airport not long before I wrote one of these songs, and I might not have written it if I hadn’t been in the airport, but I wasn’t like “I gotta write about this airport!” It was more like… going back to using archetypal song elements where you have name-dropping cities, methods of travel, talking about money, stuff like that. All these things have been beaten to death in songwriting to the point where they’re just tools you can use to do anything. And then there’s trying to develop your own little ideas that you treat as normal and use them in the same way, but they’re unique to the album. That’s something that can blur everything into a lyrical texture that I really like. Use stuff people are used to hearing, then aggressively use things they might not have heard, but smash it all together. So it’s like half and half. Sometimes if a place is name-dropped or a vehicle is mentioned, it’s a real thing. And half the time it’s just not.

SWIM: So what is it like being from Water From Your Eyes, which is a band where you don’t sing, and another project where your voice is on pretty much every song? Is that a strange asymmetry to navigate?

AMOS: I mean, it’s strange. I don’t know how difficult it is. They’re both projects that, at this point, I know very well, and I have a sort of particular mindset for each of them. And it’s kind of like playing two different sports. They’re just separate enough that they don’t really get in the way of each other. I definitely, as of now, have clocked more hours just playing guitar in front of people than singing. I don’t really like singing in front of people, but I guess if I’m trying to do this, then I have to. We did a back-to-back tour where it just flipped from one thing to the other halfway through, and it didn’t feel all that weird. It’s a different kind of fun.

SWIM: That’s great, I caught a lyric on “An Extra Beat For You And Me,” the little “water from my eyes” line. Is that a nod to your other project?

AMOS: Yeah.

SWIM: I was also wondering, do you know the “Buffalo Stance” song by Neneh Cherry?

AMOS: No, I don’t think so.

SWIM: She has a little interlude where she goes “water from my eyes,” and I was like crossover moment!

AMOS: Oh, whoa, I did not know that. That’s cool.

SWIM: Anyways, I was curious why you included the little nod.

AMOS: I don’t know what the initial idea was. I just kind of wrote it, and then I was like, “Is that too silly?” Because it is kind of funny to nod at it, but I realized there’s this recurring theme where once every couple of years, I’ll write a song and just kind of sneak that phrase into it. The last one is a song that Water ended up doing called “When You’re Around.”

SWIM: Yeah! Yeah.

AMOS: Someone originally asked me to write a song for a movie.

SWIM: A karaoke scene, right?

AMOS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That song is the same thing. It doesn’t really mean anything that it’s in there. It just kind of happened that way.

SWIM: Is it crying? Is it sad crying or happy crying?

AMOS: It could be either. In that song, it’s more of an overwhelmed cry throughout it, rather than a sad thing.

SWIM: Yeah. Beautiful. I have another question about country music for you. We’re almost out of time. Growing up in a bluegrass environment where people were playing country music and country-adjacent music constantly… do you have favorite country musicians?

AMOS: Oh, yeah. I mean, in terms of traditional bluegrass, it’s not something I listen to all the time, but there are certain standard things in that genre that blew my mind, like the early stuff like Bill Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, and The Stanley Brothers. A lot of what I grew to love later in life was stuff that’s kind of like rock-country hybrid because I viewed those as such separate things, and at a certain point, was kind of like the purist mindset, where there’s like the old-time bluegrass music, and I didn’t like it when that was taken and applied to other things. But I got really into [it].

Discovering Gram Parsons and the Flying Burrito Brothers was an interesting thing at one point because I missed them until later in life. Favorite country musicians… Townes Van Zandt. As I got older, I became more into country as a songwriting style in a way that I didn’t really think about as a kid, where it was more about the music itself rather than as a medium for writing that I might use.

SWIM: Do you think there will be more country music in your future?

AMOS: Probably! I don’t know, I have no idea. I never really know until the album is off and running. And this album certainly didn’t–the intention was not to open with a country song. But it was how I was studying Shane McGowan a lot, and I feel like that bled through pretty obviously in some of the tracks. But I don’t know; it depends on when I have time to make a Lorelei album again and what I’m into at that point.

SWIM: Yeah, it seems like you’ll be pretty busy for the foreseeable future.

AMOS: Yeah, I mean, ideally, I’d like to get on a schedule where I’m alternating and have some sort of album coming out every year alternating between projects. But we’ll see if that happens. I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. [laughter] Probably more country songs, yeah. Not exclusively country songs.

SWIM: Well, I’m excited to see more country songs and non-country songs. Thank you again for taking the time.

AMOS: No problem, thank you for having me.

SWIM: Good luck with the rest of your tour and album rollout. I think it’s going to be historic.

AMOS: Thank you. I’m glad you like it.

Elizabeth is a writer and researcher in Chicago. She writes about many things—art, the internet, apocalyptic thought, genetically modified mice—and makes electronic music in her spare time. She is from Northern Nevada.

April 12, 2024

Documenting The Void: An Interview with Heavenly Blue

April 12, 2024/ Nick Miller

Started in the aftermath of Michigan band Youth Novel, Heavenly Blue is a seven-piece screamo/post-hardcore outfit that just issued their first release, We Have The Answer. Taking inspiration from a range of sounds in the genres of punk and hardcore, Heavenly Blue delivers an impressive collection of songs with their record. Swim Into The Sound guest writer Nick Miller recently sat down with guitarist Maya Chun and bassist Jon Riley to discuss the album, their musical influences, the band’s upcoming plans, and their love of Texas gas station food.

Heavenly Blue just got off a tour with Frail Body last month. How did that go?

Maya: It went super fucking well. I don’t think it really could’ve gone any better.

Jon: Yeah, the shows were well attended. We played with some great locals, which is always a plus. We met a bunch of pals that we hadn’t met before in person. It was cool.

In your Bandcamp bio, it says, “Screamo with dignity and integrity.” I feel like the screamo label can be sort of divisive. Some people get a little embarrassed, but Heavenly Blue seems to embrace it. What are your thoughts on “screamo?”

Maya: Like the word and label?

The use of it. Some people are like, “I don’t know. I don’t really consider us a screamo band.” That’s kind of a standard thing you hear.

Jon: I would say it’s divisive, even internally. I personally don’t enjoy music labeled as “skramz,” but I do like bands that refer to themselves as screamo now, and I’m also into bands that referred to themselves that way in 2008. So I think it’s come full circle for me, where it’s like – okay, I like post-hardcore, metalcore, and screamo, that’s fine. I like “real screamo” screamo, that’s fine. I’m really not a big fan of “skramz,” both as a label and as a genre classifier that has a sound. I just don’t really like it. I guess some of our songs are screamo songs, some of our songs are decidedly not screamo songs. They’re way more post-hardcore. There’s some noise rock-y bits. The label screamo is kind of tongue-in-cheek, when we say, “With dignity and integrity.” It’s like a little inside joke.

How do you feel about genre labels in general? It feels like everything is a mix of different genres, so it’s kind of hard to place bands into genres today.

Maya: Especially these days, I would say a lot of music is just everything.

Jon: Yeah.

Maya: I think it’s helpful to have genre labels to understand today’s music specifically, but at the end of the day, if you don’t understand genre labels and you just listen to cool music, you’ll probably make cool music.

Jon: I think I’m similar to Maya in that I have a hard time with labels. We had this discussion on tour. What actually is “mathcore?” … I don’t think I like mathcore, and Maya says she likes mathcore. But I do like white-belt grind and Maya’s like, “Those are mathcore bands.” Now I’m thinking about the Venn diagram of mathcore. I don’t understand mathcore, and I’m not even going to pretend to understand mathcore. But then we have some songs that are kind of math-y. Like – what is that song even called?

Maya: “Looming?”

Jon: “Looming” is like seven-eight-nine-five-five-seven-eight. The counting is so messed up. I’m like, ‘Is that a mathcore song? Do I like our music? I don’t know.’

Maya: That’s just a Drew [Coughlin] song.

Jon: Yeah, it’s drummer music, and maybe that’s what we should describe it as. We have drummer music, and then we have guitarist music.

Maya: Yeah, that’s honestly more accurate, because you can tell bands like Ulcerate or Origin in the metal genre specifically – it’s all about the drummer in those fucking bands. And then you have other bands like, I don’t know – Necrophagus or fucking Brain Drill is obviously all about the guitars.

Jon: I think maybe we start the Venn diagram at guitarist music [versus] drummer music and then go from there. But I actually do think genres are helpful in just understanding where people see their allegiances. I think when a band tells me what genre they are, it’s more interesting for me not because I’m trying to be like, “You’re not a real screamo band.” But it’s like, “Oh, but you listen to that stuff, and those are the things you’re influenced by, and now when I’m listening to your music, I’m listening for the things you like.” I think that’s kind of how I think about it – genre’s just like your influences now because everything is everything.

When you’re writing music, are you conscious of what your influences are, or do you let it sit subconsciously and figure it out later?

Jon: I personally only write music after I’ve been listening to other music. I never just wake up in the morning and have a riff in my head. I’m always listening to an Unwound song, and I’m like, “Oh, the way that song builds and everything is chaos and catharsis – I would want to do that for a Heavenly Blue song,” and I kind of use that motif as a starting point… I’m not taking notes or even riffs or whatever, I’m mostly just taking musical concepts and motifs, and seeing how I can interpret them in our musical lexicon.

Maya: It’s sort of a mix for me. Obviously, we were just on tour for Frail Body for two weeks, and a couple of days ago – it was just a regular afternoon after I came home from work. I’m just playing guitar, and I’m like, “I have an idea.” And I write, for the first time in months, a song that’s like two-thirds Frail Body and one-third Nuvolascura, because I just love Nuvolascura. I think I get exposed to stuff and it influences me subconsciously, but then I’ll just randomly have an idea.

Talking about We Have The Answer, what do you feel like your influences were?

Maya: I think we all had a lot of pretty different influences coming into that record. … A fair amount of the guitar parts on that record are –

Jon: They’re holdovers from Youth Novel. Some John Dickinson riffs.

Maya: Yeah, John Dickinson wrote some riffs with us and sent them over following the release of the Youth Novel record, and I built songs around them, along with some older riffs. But for other parts of the record, I regularly take a lot of guitar influence, at least, from At The Drive-In and The Fall Of Troy, I guess as a quote-unquote lead guitarist or whatever.

Jon: Our drummer writes songs on drums, which is pretty different from most bands. There’s a few songs [like that] on the record. If you listen to the record, you’ll know which ones they are, because it’s very apparent. The drummer will write a drum song, and then we come in later. Maya writes guitars and we kind of workshop it and change the structure a little bit to make it more musical “song structure” sense. Because drummers have Drummer Brain and just want to drum, so you have to help them write songs. And then Kris, me, and Drew kind of jammed together, and we sort of talk about stuff as like – “Okay, so this song is ‘Screamo Banger.’” And that’s the way we think about that collection of riffs and parts. It’s all part of this song that’s loosely defined as “Screamo Banger.”

Maya: I barely remember what the actual name of it is. I just know it as “Screamo Banger.”

Jon: We have codes for all of our songs.

Can you tell me which one “Screamo Banger” is?

Jon and Maya: “...And Like That, A Year Had Passed.”

Let’s talk about the Metal Frat at the University of Michigan. Is that where you two met?

Jon: We met on a Facebook group, but yeah.

Maya: Because of Metal Frat.

What did you learn from your time living there or just being around there?

Jon: I know all the different types of mold. The types of mold that can hurt you and the types of mold that you can cohabitate with.

Maya: I know how to shotgun a beer in less than a second.

Jon: I know how to book a show. I think I learned how to do that there.

Maya: The pedal board that I built there is still the one I have.

Jon: Learned how to live in difficult situations. One of the things living in an environment like that teaches you – it’s actually good training for being in a band. You might not always get along with your close cohabitants, and you often have to learn how to make it work in creative ways. I think that has made being in a band with so many people easier for me and Maya specifically, because we’re used to living with 24 people, sometimes more.

Maya: Sometimes I forget that. It’s just like – yeah, I used to live with 20 fucking people.

Maya, you recorded and mixed much of the album. What were your goals going in? Did you have an idea of what you wanted it to sound like specifically?

Maya: The drums for seven of the songs were recorded in Baltimore when Drew was still living there. The remaining three or four songs we recorded here in different capacities. Due to the nature of how we recorded it, because it’s hard to get seven people in a room together, I think I just wanted it to sound as good as I could. And I think I also have a pretty distinct idea of what sounds good at the end of the day, and I think that’s born from listening to a lot of metal and maybe idolizing Devin Townsend in my early years, and loving “Wall of Sound” production. I just like things to sound big; I like things to sound live. I guess my ideal mix is the perfect live show experience. I can be both very forgiving and very picky about how I do that, which I why I spent like three months agonizing over the mix every day, for many hours every day. I really like mid-2000s Kurt Ballou. I really like fucking Adam from Killswitch [Engage]’s mixes of all those early metalcore records, like Norma Jean’s, Bless The Martyr and shit. I just like those dirty-ass, hard-hitting, stupid records. And I also played djent in the 2010s, so I can’t escape that either, I suppose.

What is your background in audio engineering?

Maya: I was self-taught from middle and high school. I was just on the internet, I didn’t have friends in real life, and I liked progressive metal. So I really didn’t have anything else to do other than just make music in my room alone.

Jon: I’m gonna interject and say Maya made quite possibly the best post-rock metal record of the 2010s when she was in early high school.

Maya: I did no such thing.

Jon: She lies to you.

Maya: It’s a prog record.

Jon: It’s a prog record but it’s actually great. It was one of the things where I was like, “This person has to join Metal Frat because one – you can record Youth Novel. Two – the record, it was better than anything I’ve ever done to this day.

Maya: That’s not true.

Jon: It’s true.

What’s it called?

Jon: The project was called Goodthink, and the record is called Ascend. Is that right?

Maya: That’s correct. I released that in the summer of my senior year, just about to go into college.

Jon: That’s in writing, Maya. Everyone who reads this is gonna go listen to that record, and they’re gonna be like, “Wow.”

Maya: No, they’re not. They’re gonna listen to the first record and be like, ‘What is this Dream Theater bullshit?’

Jon: Maya’s magnum opus.

Maya: It was definitely my magnum opus at the time, in high school. Yeah. And that was 11 years ago.

Jon: Sorry to derail your question. Maya sells herself short. She’s been very good at audio engineering for a long time.

Maya: Then I went to U of M and did the Performing Arts Technology program, which is essentially their audio engineering program, for a few years. Now I’m here.

Do you think you’re going to keep recording the band?

Maya: Unless a lot of money is handed to us, with the condition being Maya doesn’t record the band, then sure, yeah. I’d like to, because I just like to.

Let’s talk about the album art. Where did that come from?

Jon: So that was me. … It’s an interesting story. We kind of went back and forth on a lot of concepts for the album, just in terms of how the songs made us feel, or what are the types of imagery that kind of encapsulate both the lyrical and sonic content. God, I sound like I’m being a dick. I kind of feel like an asshole. You can tell I went to art school. So anyway, I kind of bounced a bunch of ideas off people. The things that kind of stood out were [that] it feels brutal and dense and kind of obstructive. It feels like it’s just in the way of something, but you don’t know what. It’s just like a rock in the middle of the road. It feels impactful. But then other people were like, “It makes me feel de-personified and absent, like the void.” So I kind of looked for a bunch of themes, and one of the things that stood out to me was the desert. And Maya’s like, “This is not a desert album.” And I was like, “It’s not a desert album.” Still think it was a great concept.

Maya: It’s not a desert album.

Jon: It’s not a desert album.

Maya: We ain’t Kyuss.

Jon: We could be, though.

Maya: We’re not Kyuss.

Jon: I’m telling you, Maya. The stoner rock arc is the next record, for sure.

Maya: I don’t think so.

Jon: Anyway… I kind of started to do some digging into the archives on those themes, and I found this photograph from 1960s San Francisco political organizing. I’m not gonna mention who the person in the photo is. That’s part of the purpose of obscuring their face – so you don’t know. It is a person from the San Francisco Bay Area who was integral in moving forward progressive politics in that time period. We obscured all the faces from that image in hopes that you understood that de-personification that we were feeling when we listened to it or when we wrote it… There are some other elements to the art, specifically the layout. The physical record has one of the alternative covers that I looked at, which is a person performing a ballet dance on a stage from the exact same event that you’re looking at in the first image. Part of it has to do with – you don’t know who these people are, you don’t know what the event is, but they’re obviously doing an evocative act. This is a performance of some sort. And that’s kind of how I view the record. I don’t know how people are going to describe it, but I know that they’ll kind of have a hard time. But you’ll listen to it. You have to kind of engage with it. You have to work through the songs to hopefully get what we were trying to do. … Oh, and the cross. This is the last thing I’ll say.

Maya: Oh, yeah.

Jon: Part of it was like, “What if we name the record We Have The Answer and put a cross on the cover? Are we a Christian band?” That was one of the things we kind of joked about. … But also, I’m personally interested in text-based design, and I like when people break conventions with text in a design. So I was trying to go for something that kind of mimicked the image. So if you look at the cover, you’ll see the person on the stage with this hand pose, and the text is supposed to kind of be a mirror image of that just in the shape of everything. It’s purely aesthetic, is what I’m saying. It’s not Christianity.

Are you going to put out lyrics with the album?

Maya: I think we are, yeah.

Jon: I know that they are in the liner knows. I don’t know if they’re going to make it [online]. … They are in the liner notes with the exception of some lyrics that we have withheld from the song “Certain Distance,” because some of those lyrics were written by the first vocalist of Heavenly Blue. We’ve already gone through one vocalist. That’s our friend Nathan. Nathan didn’t want to be in a band anymore. Nathan’s a spiritual member.

I’m fascinated with sequencing and how people come up with that. Can you talk about how you decided on the order of the tracks? Was that carefully thought through?

Maya: I think usually I’m generally the one who does it. I’ll bring a certain tracklist to the band and be like, “What do you guys think of this?” And everyone will give their input and we’ll change it. We’ll have another tracklist and if we like that, we’ll go with it, or if we don’t like it, we’ll make some more changes.

Jon: With this record, I think Maya was intimately familiar with the songs.

Maya: That’s every record!

Jon: But this one specifically because you mixed it for three months straight.

Maya: How long – we worked on the Youth Novel record for seven years.

Jon: You worked on the Youth Novel record for seven years. I worked on the Youth Novel record for a total of three weeks. Anyway… I think there is an arc to the sequencing. The way that it sort of goes, which is kind of funny, is it goes in chronological order of how the songs were written.

Maya: Pretty closely, yeah.

Jon: So you kind of see the creative process of this band forming in this record. The first couple songs are all Youth Novel holdovers.

Maya: That plus riffs that John Dickinson wrote after the Youth Novel LP.

Jon: And then there’s the drummer songs, which are the middle of the record, and … kind of like a junction. Drew actually recorded drums for those songs before the songs were completed. Just recorded drums at the studio because we paid for studio time.

Maya: I had written the songs around it by that time, but they weren’t done.

Jon: The last three or four songs me, Kris, and Drew wrote together in a collaborative way, the skeleton of, and Maya took it into a DAW [digital audio workstation] and finished. That’s kind of how the sequencing came to be. I do think there’s kind of an arc of more melodic content at the beginning, and then it goes into more math-y, abrasive content in the middle, and then this build-up and fall-off for the last two tracks. I think there is a sequence. I don’t know if it was as intentional as most people because we didn’t sit down and write this record in a month. This record took two years, so it was a long process.

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How do you see the writing process changing going forward, now that you sort of have a base?

Maya: We’re out of Youth Novel riffs. No more.

Jon: I’m ready for our new stuff because I do think it sounds a lot more like us, like the people in the room who are making the music. We got together and went to a cabin in Port Hope, Michigan [in] the thumb of Michigan. … [We] got together for a weekend, hung out, and wrote five or six songs. Parts for songs. They’re not done, but –

Maya: That, plus everything else we have – we have like 47 minutes of raw material for the next record.

Jon: We have a lot that we are toying with. I’m excited to start the next record.

Heavenly Blue is playing a couple of festivals this summer. Will you be touring on the way there?

Maya: Four shows, including PUG Fest.

Jon: Yeah, we’re doing a slew of shows with Dreamwell. … That’s gonna be fun. Good band. They put out a good record last year. And then we’re playing some shows before New Friends Fest with an unannounced band that I’m not gonna name yet. We’re gonna wait a little bit longer. We are gonna be playing with Flooding again, I think. We love Flooding. Best band ever. We got to play with Flooding for three dates on this last Frail Body tour. We’re hoping to play some shows with them because they’re also playing New Friends and we love their music. And they’re also sweet people. And we might have some other stuff coming at the end of the year.

What do you like to eat on the road?

Maya: Buc-ee’s

Jon: We fell in love with Buc-ee’s on the road.

I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of Buc-ee’s. Is it a Texas thing?

Jon: It’s a Texas thing.

Maya: Yeah, it’s like a big, old truck stop, except there’s no trucks allowed.

Jon: It’s a truck stop without the trucks. It’s amazing.

Maya: They have a whole deli bar kind of thing for just jerky. They have fresh-made BBQ sandwiches. They have burritos. It’s basically like gas station food but cranked up to the absolute max, and also in Texas.

Jon: Everything’s bigger. I know they say everything’s bigger in Texas, but the sandwiches are enormous.

Maya: They were fucking good.

Jon: The cost-to-weight value of food there is unreal.

Maya: You can’t get a BBQ sandwich [in Michigan] that good.

Jon: Buc-ee’s is the best Texas gas station. I would say the other things we do for food – I don’t know, we try not to eat like absolute garbage. The band tries to buy people good food once a day because you gotta eat well to live a quality life, and we try to take that seriously. On this [last] tour, the band paid for everyone’s meals and we tried to buy ourselves good food. We love Taco Bell, too, especially for the vegetarians.

Maya: We’ve got some vegetarian/vegan people, so we usually have to take that into account. Most of us will eat whatever.

Nick Miller is a freelance writer from Ypsilanti, Michigan, primarily writing about the world of professional wrestling. He also enjoys playing music, reading, tabletop RPGs, and logging Letterboxd entries (AKA watching movies). You can find him on X at @nickmiller4321 or on Instagram at @nickmiller5678.

November 13, 2023

Puppy Angst: One Year of Scorpio Season

November 13, 2023/ Elizabeth Handgun

Dreamy, gazey Philadelphia rockers Puppy Angst celebrated one year of their debut LP Scorpio Season, hitting the road on an East Coast tour and releasing a vinyl edition to commemorate the occasion. Swim Into The Sound spoke with lead vocalist Alyssa Milman as they looked back on the genesis, recording, and touring of this creative and impressive contribution to indie rock.

Milman was a founding member of bands Blushed and Past Life and has played as a touring member of Kississippi. They noted that touring with Kississippi and other bands has been a deeply generative experience, which helped shape and focus their sights on their own musical projects.

“As of April 2022, Puppy Angst is my only band. It’s why I left Kississippi. Having those experiences on the stage as we played… definitely shaped me as a musician, in the sense that it taught me what tour was really like,” said Milman. “It was a whirlwind and definitely changed things for me. I had never played on a stage that big. It just [gave] me a bit of a hunger to have this band get to do that stuff, too.”

Puppy Angst is a rollicking rock outfit suffused with youthful energy and tenderness, nurturing both brashness and vulnerability. Milman described the sound as “like if Mannequin Pussy or Bully was a shoegaze band.” To my ear, it also recalls glam rock and pop-punk while being something entirely original.

The band’s grounding in the Philadelphia rock ecosystem is one of Puppy Angst’s great strengths. Every member in the band besides Milman is in other projects; drummer Eric Naroden is the frontman of In Lieu of Roses, synth player Pauli Mia is the frontwoman of Twin Princess, and bassist John Heywood tours with indie superstar Alex G. Guitarist Dan Leinweber played alongside Milman in Blushed, and makes ambient music under the name greenspace. “It is cool to have this intricate web,” said Milman. “A band family. Bands-in-law, as [synth player] Pauli would say.”

For Scorpio Season, Puppy Angst’s debut album, the creative process was a mix of gradual cultivation and rapid finalization. The songs were written slowly, starting in 2019 and continuing over the next three years. Lead single “Yellow Paint,” a catchy and dynamic song, which offers an early high point on the album. The revving guitars deliver energy and strength, while the warbling synths add a layer of gauzy beauty and complexity.

“‘Yellow Paint,’ as soon as I wrote it, I was like “this is the one. This is the greatest song I’ve ever written!” Milman adds, “It was one of those moments where I was like “I can’t believe I wrote that.”

Writing the album was as much a process of transmogrifying old songs as it was coming up with new material; some of the songs, like “Aftermath,” had been reworked from early versions performed with previous bands.

“‘Aftermath’ was a really fast [song], it fit the Blushed world of the surf punk, super quick, chaotic type of thing, which we do a lot of in Puppy Angst! But something about it felt wrong to just take the song that Blushed wrote and record it verbatim on our album,” said Milman. “To record it, I wanted it to be a new song while still honoring some of that old song, like put it into the Puppy Angst world while also not taking too much from what Blushed did in the past.”

In contrast to the slow and intricate writing process, recording was done in a flash, with the band eager to finish the record in time for an (on-brand) Scorpio season release. “We went into Headroom Studios, just me, John, and Eric. We got all the drums and bass done in a day and a half,” said Milman.

Additional recording took place in the home studio of the sound engineer Joanna Baumann with the help of Dan Leinweber while Milman left for tour with Kississippi. “I was worried I just wouldn’t have the time or the creative energy to write all these guitar parts for an album, but I knew I wanted to have the bottom layers on it, to make it really textural, really lush,” said Milman.

“We finished mixing it in the summer of 2022 and put it out on October 24, 2022. So it was a long-winded process, but in the end, it was really quick,” said Milman. “I wanted it to be called Scorpio Season, I’d had this plan for so long… I wanted it to be for the fall and winter, I wanted it to match the season it came out in.”

The album indeed carries a punchy melancholy that feels appropriate for the autumn months; the album is colored with themes of both decay and renewal, a certain bitterness and pain, and is tempered with perspective and reflection. Even the songs that are by no means soft carry an unshakable vulnerability; on “Your Bones,” Milman sings, “I would’ve comforted you, I would’ve comforted you, but… you would never do the same.” The strong doses of anguish and abandon make the record feel at home in the darkest months of the year.

After the album’s release, the band embarked on an extensive tour, playing everything from college radio shows to two official showcases as South By Southwest.

“Our two official showcases were so, so much better than I ever could have imagined. Packed rooms! It was bizarre!” recounts Milman. “There were shows where the venue staff and bartenders were buying our merch. I was like, ‘You guys see so many bands! It’s so wild you would want to buy a tee shirt from us.’ That felt very affirming.”

The smaller shows were also memorable, with Milman noting that the younger audiences carry different (higher!) energy. “We played a really insane house show where Pauli was scared her beer was going to get knocked over by kids moshing,” Milman recalls, laughing.

Ultimately, the tour’s success has represented more than a good record; it represents a validation of individual and collective ambition, a deserved reward for Milman and the band’s dedication. In this way, Scorpio Season is a triumph, both personal and artistic.

“It’s been a really long process of realizing that I can put my own art, my creative pursuit first, it can be my first priority, and I can be all in on it,” said Milman. “Sometimes I feel like I’m making a fool out of myself. But then, on this tour, I was like, “No, the dream is happening! This is the dream.”

Elizabeth is a neuroscience researcher in Chicago. She writes about many things—art, the internet, apocalyptic thought, genetically modified mice–on her substack handgun.substack.com. She is from Northern Nevada.

April 18, 2023

Fauxchella: The Only Music Festival That Matters – An Interview with Conor Alan of The Summit Shack

April 18, 2023/ Taylor Grimes

If you’re a big enough music geek, you probably have a favorite music festival. Maybe you long for the bygone days of Warped Tour and its sweaty Monster-scented mosh pits. Maybe you’re a Chicagoan who is lucky enough to take their pick from Lollapalooza, Pitchfork Music Festival, and Riot Fest. Maybe you just have an affinity for whatever happens to come close enough to you. For my money, there’s no better music festival on Earth than Fauxchella.

Fauxchella is DIY music’s response to California’s biggest and most insufferable music festival institution. It’s kinda like that infamous pic of the crowd surfer from Title Fight’s 2015 Coachella set, but if every attendee was that crowd surfer. Taking place in the exotic, 30k-population college town of Bowling Green, Ohio, Fauxchella is decidedly smaller and much more exciting than the quarter-million-attendee festival from which it gets its jokey name. Centered primarily around emo and indie rock bands based out of the Midwest, Fauxchella is organized by the Summit Shack, a DIY venue that bills itself on Twitter as a “premier, high-end, all-media entertainment conglomerate (aka friends with a garage).”

The Summit Shack first opened its doors in 2017 as a house venue run by several members of the emo band American Spirits. After putting out a couple of EPs and farewell singles, American Spirits called it quits in 2019, yet Summit Shack remained. Select members of the group went on to found the awesome (and far less emo) band Half Kidding whose 2022 album, Bonk, is both underrated and underappreciated in the larger DIY music scene.

The Summit Shack has been hosting incredible shows out of their garage venue for over half a decade, but the festivals are a different beast entirely. The first Fauxchella took place in 2017, billing itself as a day of “cookouts, comedy, and live music,” boasting a modest 12 acts ranging from musicians and standups to DJ sets. The second iteration occurred in 2018 and doubled the lineup to 12 bands, four DJs, and seven comedy sets. While still mostly contained to Ohio, this sequel also boasted a more prominent lineup that included the likes of Heart Attack Man and Sonder Bombs, increasing the show’s draw and star power from its first hyper-local incarnation.

The third Fauxchella took place in 2019, and this is when things really started to get wild. This was also the first Summit Shack event that I attended, having just moved out to Detroit the year prior. Fauxchella III had a lineup of Charmer, Origami Angel, and Stars Hollow, just to name a few. Little did I know it at the time, but these were all bands that would go on to define the next few years of my life and eventually become synonymous with the “5th Wave Emo” sound.

With a 21-band lineup, a two-stage setup, a pre-show celebration the night before, and a post-show afterparty, Fauxhella III was a genuine event. I crossed state lines and got an AirBnb just for this show, it was that unmissable. At the festival, the energy was infectious; every band cranked out one incredible set after the other, all attempting to keep the energy from the previous act going. Quite honestly, it blew my fucking mind. Coming from the West Coast, witnessing this kind of Midwestern camaraderie and do-it-yourself ethos felt revelatory. It affirmed that I was in the right place and that these were my people.

Around the same time in 2019, Summit Shack joined forces with Loonbase Studios, a DIY video production company dedicated to filming and documenting these shows. As a result, several of the sets from Fauxhella III (and each subsequent fest) exist online for all to see. This kind of documentation is rare for music of this scale, and a beyond-worthy effort to capture a moment in a specific music scene.

2019 wound up being a banner year for the Shack. In June, the venue hosted Swordfest, featuring a nine-band bill including Pool Kids, Mover Shaker, and more. In September, they put on DIY Prom, a 24-band affair that encouraged Midwest emo kids to recreate the prom they never had. These bigger, more festival-like lineups became buzzy events for Summit Shack, acting as big, scene-wide celebrations that drew fans (and bands) from all over the Midwest and East Coast. These fests became tentpole events that existed between strings of ongoing local shows that Summit Shack continued to host out of their garage. For a while, Summit Shack almost single-handedly made it feel like Bowling Green was the Place To Be if you were tapped into the Michigan/Ohio music scene.

As you could imagine, 2020 wasn’t kind to touring music or the Summit Shack. Aside from “Snowchella,” which happened in January, Summit Shack essentially went into hibernation when it came to routing touring bands or hosting these larger fests. The Ill-fated “Fourchella” was set to happen in April 2020 and fell apart for reasons that should be obvious. Not content to let COVID ruin their efforts, Summit Shack instead conceived of “Minechella,” a Minecraft-based celebration featuring a smattering of bands, including one set immortalized on the Origami Angel Broke Minecraft EP.

By 2022 things were once again full-steam ahead as Fauchella V happened in July with a staggering 33 bands, including personal faves Ben Quad, Carpool, Summerbruise, Riley, Seaholm, and Equipment. As with lots of these lineups, I suppose your mileage may vary depending on how much you’re tapped into the Midwest emo scene, but for a hyper-online fifth-wave fuck like myself, these lineups are pulled straight out of my Spotify playlists and last.fm grids. Always a nice mix of bands I already love and a handful that I’m about to love, Summit Shack continues to kill it with stellar shows that showcase the best our DIY community has to offer.

This brings us to 2023.

If I could describe to you the joy I saw looking over an early iteration of the Fauchella VI lineup, you could bottle that up and sell it for millions on the internet. Honestly, I don’t even know where to start with this lineup.

First off, you’ve got the aforementioned Ben Quad, aka purveyors of the Emo Album of the Year for 2022. You’ve got Equipment and Saturdays at Your Place who have each released two of the most exciting EPs of 2023 so far. You’ve got kids pushing the boundaries in fun and exciting ways like Newgrounds Death Rugby, Hey, IlY, and Cheem. You’ve got the Minneapolis legends NATL PARK SRVC and Dad Bod. You’ve got some of my personal album-of-the-year regulars with Carpool, Summerbruise, and Short Fictions. You’ve got bands that weirdly feel like “legacy” acts in relation to some of these, with fifth-wave groups like Dikembe, Charmer, and Michael Cera Palin. There are tap-happy rippers like Riley, Kerosene Heights, and Aren’t We Amphibians. You’ve got some certified ass-beaters like California Cousins, Arcadia Grey, and Smoke Detector. You’ve got local legends like Teamonade, Ellie Hart, and Half Kidding (the band, for all intents and purposes, hosting the event).

If that sounds a little overwhelming, that’s because it is. It’s a 60+ band bill stretched over an epic three-day weekend from Friday to Sunday, all crammed into Howards Club H, the local 200-cap dive bar.

Practically all of these bands have released something over the past three years. Some of them focused on tightening their screws and honing in on the things that make them different from their peers, others took wildly exciting diversions into exciting new territories. It’s easy to make jokes about Fauxchella being “Emo Twitter Fest,” but the talent packed into this lineup is far too diverse and exciting to be summed up in such a diminutive way.

While some of these bands are several albums or EPs deep into their career, others have only made their presence known within the last six months or have a few public songs to their name. Regardless, I’d say many of these bands released career-defining work over the past year or so. Lots of these bands could fit under the sweeping distinction of “Emo” or “5th Wave,” but those terms have been made flexible enough to fit almost all of these bands.

It’s an exciting time to be an emo fan. Bands of this scale move quickly and can pivot on a dime, but as someone who’s had nothing better to do than sit inside his apartment and buy things on Bandcamp Fridays for the past few years, this feels like an explosively exciting synthesis of a moment-in-time, all caught in a room in Bowling Green Ohio. What the fuck.

While this lineup might seem pulled straight out of Spotify’s The Sound of 5th Wave Emo playlist, there are very many people behind this. One of the key figures behind the Summit Shack is Conor Alan, the drummer for American Spirits, Half Kidding, and resident of the Summit Shack. I sat down with Conor over Zoom to get a better idea of the Shack's history and how Fauxchella has evolved each time since its first incarnation six years ago.

SWIM: First off, I’m curious, when you meet someone in the music scene, how do you articulate the Summit Shack to people? What do you lead with? Because you’re also in a band, you organize this whole fest, but you’re also doing regular shows out of the Shack. So how do you describe all of that succinctly to anyone?

SHACK: I guess it depends on the context, but if I’m just vaguely describing the Shack, I call it a fest and video crew. The Twitter bio, which is more of a bit than anything else, is from Parks and Recreation: Entertainment 720, “premier high-end all-media entertainment conglomerate,” which, all jokes aside, isn’t too far off. The “premier high end” is a little subjective, but “all-media entertainment conglomerate” seems pretty succinct.

SWIM: I think that’s part of what attracts me to all of this. For the scale you guys are working on, it one hundred percent is, right? There are very few people documenting this type of music with as much production as you guys do.

I’m super eager to hear you describe the inception of all this because you guys first wound up on my radar in 2019, which was a couple years into this, and I think comparing every Fauxchella to each other is pretty fascinating. But going chronologically, we can lay out how everything has grown, so if you wanna go all the way back to the beginning in your own words, I’d love to hear that.

SHACK: So basically, it would’ve been March 2017 when the first idea for it all sprouted. I had graduated college in the winter and had qualms about what I wanted to do with either my job or my hobbies.

I took a trip to Los Angeles to visit with my friend Izzy for four days, and then I spent four days in San Diego with some family members. Just something about being in LA… like there wasn’t even a pivotal thing that I saw. It was more just the energy of everyone there.

I just kind of walked around LA cause Izzy had to work all day, so I was just killing time on my own and got to explore the city. When I had gotten back home, I realized there are so many musicians, graphic designers, rappers, producers, and DJs in Bowling Green, but there’s no collective that catalogs them all. I wanted to make it so that if you need a graphic designer or a song for something, you can reach out to this group, and they’ll have access to somebody. Just trying to make it so everybody could collaborate easier.

Once I got back to BG, I went to a DJ show at my friend Ashley’s house and ended up talking with Trey and Bails, who I had recently been introduced to through Dillon, who was the guitarist for American Spirits. Dillon’s friend was working on a mockumentary project about a music group, and she didn’t have a band to do it on, so we started American Spirits as a bit.

So me talking to Trey and Bails at that DJ show combined with the fact that we were starting up the joke band and actually jamming and having fun. We didn’t have any real intentions behind it. Eventually, we conceptualized Same Co., which is the Same Collective. Our motto was, “We are all the same.” It was just a perfect example of too many cooks in the kitchen cause we had anywhere from eight to 20 people all directly contributing to the creative direction of things. None of us had any clue what we were doing. Eventually, we just thought, okay, how do we turn this into something similar with a more direct goal?

We had done a few ciphers where we would put on beats and have groups of people freestyle over them. Just kind of hanging out. Eventually, we decided that we would start doing shows out of the garage. We had originally cleared out the garage for Same Co. as a collective space, but it ended up being turned into a venue, quote-unquote, cause I dunno if you could quite call it that at the beginning.

Dillon was really the person who spearheaded both American Spirits and Summit Shack in the beginning. The first show out of the Shack was August 2nd, 2017, it was Awesome Job!, an amazing band from Toledo that’s not playing anymore, but they’re all in other projects. Then the first Fauxchella happened on August 11th.

SWIM: I love that the first Fauxchella felt hyper-local, where it’s basically all Bowling Green people. The fact that you guys had DJs and comedians in there made it feel like the scope was already wider than just “DIY Music,” even if it was all just acts from nearby.

SHACK: I’m trying to find when we transitioned from Same Co. into the Summit Shack, which was originally gonna be called The Leaky Tarp, but then Ian talked us out of it and came up with Summit Shack. Way better. Leaky Tarp just says all sorts of negative connotations. Who wants to go to a place with a leaky tarp? But one of the first shows we had rained a lot, so we had set up tarps and stuff to try and keep people dry.

SWIM: Humble beginnings.

SHACK: Yeah, yeah, and then Ian changed it to the Summit Shack, which was the best decision anyone made cause I really do love the name.

But what started as an idea for a collective turned into an event space turned into us throwing a joke festival, you know… Fauxchella, we didn’t think we were ever gonna do another one. We were just kind of flying by the seat of our pants.

SWIM: So you had no expectations, but then you did all these shows where touring bands started routing through. Was it hard to convince people to come to Bowling Green? Because you’re between Detroit and Cleveland, and you’re kind of smack dab in the middle of all these other bigger cities. So what was the process like for getting bands to stop there?

SHACK: November 2017 was the first show we had with a band from more than an hour away. American Spirits had started playing out and doing more shows cause we realized it was less of a bit and more, “Hey, this is actually pretty fun being in a band and actually playing gigs.” So we started doing more gigs and then started meeting more bands from out of town and more musicians in general.

The first real out-of-town band that we had play was The Sonder Bombs in November 2017. They came and played their first out-of-town show as well; that was the first time they played out of Cleveland. And then February 2018, we did the American Spirits EP release show. The Shack is definitely less American Spirits now than it was back then, but in the beginning they really were operating side by side.

In February 2018, we had some bands from Columbus come, and then just slowly started having more and more bands. We had Equipment play their first show at the Shack in March 2018 with a band from Michigan cause they had a tour that fell through.

Then in April 2018, Dillon had planned this gigantic show, essentially a reprisal of Fauxchella. We had the Sonder Bombs and Heart Attack Man come and play. If you look at the poster for it, I believe it says, “Melted Purple,” which dissolved but was basically the first Teamonade set that ever happened.

SWIM: Oh, whoa, that’s cool.

SHACK: Dolphin Coffin is the band Secret Space. They were unable to advertise cuz they were still signed and touring at the time, so they played a secret set. They were kind of like the Toledo sweethearts that were a step below Citizen in a way. They did a bunch of tours with Turnover and bands like that.

But Fauxchella II happened at the Shack. We fenced off the whole yard cause we knew Heart Attack Man was a big band, and I had no idea. At this point, I was not necessarily out of the loop (because everything was still happening at my house), but I was mainly spearheading the DJs and the comedians.

Dillon and Bails were really into Microwave, Prince Daddy, Oso Oso, those kinds of bands, so they were the ones who were super into that genre of music. I was coming out of being super into electronica, so I was still spearheading that side of things.

Fauxchella II was the last one we did at the house, and it was pretty much Dillon still kind of leading everything. Dillon was doing the Spirits booking and the Shack booking. I was just more like, ‘Yeah, I’m cool with this happening at my house, and I’m cool with being in a band.’

SWIM: You had told me that before Fauxchella II, you had kinda gone around the neighborhood warning people, “Hey, we’re going to play this show.” What was the response to that? What was that process like?

SHACK: I wrote a page-long letter that I handed out to each house in every direction three houses out. So the next-door neighbors, the next-door neighbors to them, and the next-door neighbors to them all got a letter saying, “Hey, we’re hosting this little mini-festival that we’re doing at the house on this date.” At this point, we’d also been kind of ramping up and doing more shows throughout the week. But we gave everyone this paper saying here’s all of our contact information, here are all of our phone numbers, here’s all our names and everything like that. Then said if there are ever any issues, please call or text one of us.

SWIM: Not 911.

SHACK: Yeah, exactly. It was a one-page letter that essentially boiled down to, “Please don’t call the cops.” But the neighbors were all super cool, besides a few sound complaints here and there throughout the years. I got a civil citation for “rambunctious behavior,” a noise complaint, what have you. I was in the blotter. I screenshotted it and posted it on Twitter, people thought it was funny.

SHACK: Fauxchella II was really where we got on the map for a lot of people because of Heart Attack Man.

SWIM: Looking at it now, even just them and Sonder Bombs, that is already huge. And then with Fauxchella III, it just feels like it’s always been exponential. The first one was so local, then you guys stayed Ohio-based but got these bigger bands that were about to release really significant albums onto stuff like Gami and all that, which is like its own world. It’s pretty crazy to look back on a lot of those lineups. So you guys had, what, a year between that and Fauxchella III? So what was the intervening year like from April to April?

SHACK: Looking back at the Facebook Events, we were doing one, maybe two shows a month, and then Fauxchella hit, and then in May 2018, we did three shows, all out-of-town bands. June 2018, we only did two, but multiple Michigan and farther-out Ohio bands. July 2018, we only did one show, but it was kind of like a pivotal moment. We hadn’t really been taking donations super well at these shows because we didn’t know DIY ethos.

July 2018, Taking Meds and Expert Timing played the Shack on a Tuesday. I had no idea what I was getting into with either band, and now I am absolutely infatuated with both. They were from Florida and like New York, and it was really the first time that we booked bands from not in our region. And not only did we book them, but they reached out to us.

They played with American Spirits cause we’re putting ourselves on shows just cause it’s our house. There was also this band Mecha G, which was like a live-action Godzilla roleplay band. They played songs and did sketches that told the story of Godzilla. They had a fight, and one of the dudes got his face busted open and was bleeding everywhere cause they were wrestling. It was a fever dream in the best possible way. That was definitely a turning point for working with out-of-town bands.

At this point, Dillon had kind of taken a step back from doing Shack stuff and American Spirits booking. But I was just like, “This is fun. I like doing shows at my house. I like being in a band. I wouldn’t mind continuing to do this.” So I was like if Dillon’s not gonna do the booking, I guess I will. The summer of 2018 and fall of 2018 is when I started to weasel my way into the booking world.

I immediately booked a DJ show for my birthday and had a cool band called Hello Luna come through and Two Hand Fools, which is members of Heart Attack Man. We did like a huge benefit show at the house. We did a rap show. Then November 2018, we did Short Fictions and Equipment with Outside and American Spirits. That was my first time meeting Alex Martin, who gave me a whole blast into what it means to be doing shit like that.

SWIM: I love Alex, I’m sure that’s a good inflection point, too. Sounds like that meeting imparted a lot of knowledge about how this booking stuff works.

SHACK: Yeah. Alex was doing it a lot at the time. Then Alex started sending me bands. December 2018, a month after Short Fictions, Origami Angel played their first show at the Shack, and it ended up being in the living room. It was Saturday, December 29th, and it was -10° outside, so we couldn’t do the show in the garage. We ended up doing it in the living room, and the PA system broke, which created the never-ending self-fulfilling prophecy that something will go wrong at a Gami Shack show.

Around the same time, in December of 2018 is when the Shack got on Twitter.

SWIM: …And that’s its own world of emo bands and interactions. It’s kinda self-contained in a weird way, but also a networking thing too. Is that when you guys started to conceive of doing Fauxchella again?

SHACK: Yeah, it was basically just like, okay, well, what if we did another Fauxchella? How would we do this? This is when I started going to a lot of shows. I went to go see Charmer perform, and I was looking at the bands that Origami Angel was doing stuff with, and I was made privy to Stars Hollow. We had done some shows in Michigan, so I became privy to the Seaholm folks and started getting my feet wet in the Michigan scene meeting all the people up there.

February 2019 has one of my favorite stacked bills, Future Teens, World’s Greatest Dad, Teamonade, Spirits, and Kiddo. Just kind of solidifying that we’re working with like actual good touring bands.

SHACK: April 2019, we did Fauxchella III. We did a pre-party the day before that was kind of keeping the tradition of Ohio bands; it had Waving back when they were still called Waving & Waving Goodbye. Shitty Neighbors, which is the Little Elephant people. Biiitchseat, that’s when we first met Biitchseat. Discount Nostalgia who are like a classic BG band. Ship & Sail from Michigan.

The following day was when we had Shortly, Charmer, Stars Hollow, Forest Green, Sonder Bombs, Origami Angel, Teamonade, Snarls, Equipment, American Spirits, Absinthe Father, Seaholm, Baseball Dad like…

SWIM: Crazy.

SHACK: Yeah. I’m actually taking it in cause I’m establishing the timeline for myself too, and I don’t understand how I got all these bands to play.

SWIM: Well, partly it’s probably just messaging people and being like, “Hey, this is happening on this day, do you wanna play?” At a certain point, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of people that then are like, “Oh, all these other bands are playing? Yes.” I’m sure that it’s just shooting your shot a lot-

SHACK: That’s literally all it’s ever been. It’s funny because, on the E Word podcast when American Spirits were on the Freshman Class, they referred to Fauxchella as “Emo Twitter Fest,” and by God, how right they were because I’m pretty sure I DM’d all these bands on Twitter. I’m pretty sure that’s how I handled most of the booking, and still do a lot of the booking, is through Twitter, which I’m sure some people fucking hate.

SWIM: I remember talking to Haley Butters from Absinthe Father after their set at Fauxchella III, and at that point, This Band Fucks was still a thing on Twitter. And I was like, “Yo, love the music, love This Band Fucks,” and Haley told me, ‘If I were to make a fest, this would be the lineup of the This Band Fucks-approved bands.’”

It’s interesting to see how that stuff solidifies over time too, and what sticks around long enough, like Gami where they’ve put out multiple EPs and albums and then become symbolic of a larger thing like fifth-wave or whatever.

SHACK: Crazy ass lineup. Yeah, it was Twitter Fest through and through, and there are tons of Easter eggs on the poster. Like there are members of every single band from the Summit Stage hidden in the background.

SWIM: Who does the posters? Because it looks the same as Fauxchella II.

SHACK: Taylor Wilkes did a lot of the OG Fauxchella posters. When we did Fauxchella II, we had the people from Lord Whorfin and No Culture, who were doing their own music documentation live session kind of thing down in Columbus, come up and film Fauxchella II. We didn’t even do that in-house at all at the beginning.

LOONBASE LOGO BY Taylor Wilkes

SWIM: Was that what led to Loonbase then? Were you guys like, “Oh, we could buy some video equipment and do this”?

SHACK: Trey (vocalist for American Spirits) and Kate (vocalist for Half Kidding) had always been into photography and videography and, through Bowling Green, had made really good friends with Matthew Rao, Chance Duffy, and Taylor Wilkes, funnily enough, who I met seven years prior when I was working in Insomnia Cookies. It's just really weird. BG’s a small town.

SWIM: I remember going to Fauxchella III and seeing the cameras and stuff, and this already felt very established. You guys are filming all of this stuff, and in my mind, that was synonymous, just because that was my first Fauxchella, too. I was like, “Oh, okay, obviously this is a longstanding thing. They’re on the third one, and they’ve got this whole video thing going on.” So just coming from the outside, it felt like this was a legit operation.

SHACK: I guess that might be how we fooled people, that it looked official. The first Shack video that came out of Summit Shack and Loonbase Studios was Cliff Notes Episode One with Former Critics. This got put out on June 1st, 2019. So we must have done the Fest filming first and then forayed into doing video stuff for touring bands. Cuz we originally started with like the interview sessions, and then the Fauxchella III videos started coming out right after that. So, yeah, Fauxchella III was really when we merged with them fully.

SHACK: When we made the switch from II to III and all these bands started saying yes, I was like, ‘We can’t do this at the house.’ That’s when we made the switch to Howard’s and started that relationship.

SWIM: So Fauxchella III is kind of this huge point where it was a lot bigger bands, and you guys realized you had to go somewhere else. What was that process like for getting to Howard’s?

SHACK: There are really only two or three venues in BG that ever really had a history of doing shows besides the random house spots; it was Howard’s and Clazel. Clazel was more of a nightclub kind of vibe, same with Liquid. But it just made the most sense to do Howard’s because it was a dive bar. We’re fresh outta college, throwing house shows, you know what I mean? So, yeah, a dingy dive bar is fucking perfect.

SWIM: Yeah. You got pizza right across the street, it’s the best.

SHACK: Yeah, it was close to the house; it just made the most sense, given the limited options we had. We reached out to Steve, who’s the owner and the sound person usually, and he was super down for the idea. The weirdest part about Fauxchella III is that even being at Howard’s and having all these up-and-coming bands on it — the whole thing was still free admission. Fauxchella III didn’t cost anything.

There was a whole discussion about the switch cause we loved doing shows at the house. We hadn’t done any shows at Howard’s yet. It was tough for all of us to kind of reconcile losing that because it was all we knew. Moving the festival to Howard’s was, in a way, losing some of what made Fauxchella Fauxchella.

The garage can realistically only fit 60 people max, and that’s sardines. That’s why I got really good at listening to bands from outside the garage. If the show was small enough that I could go watch the band, I would, but in a lot of cases, I’d open the door, look inside, see hell, and just be like, “I’m cool out here.”

It's kind of wild ‘cause the Shack is so small; it’s just a two-car garage. That’s it. We’re really not working with any space. But, man, it didn’t take much for the shows to feel huge. I think that’s what played into a lot of the notoriety of the Shack and the crazy shows, it’s ‘cause the space was so small. If those shows had taken place at Howard’s, they wouldn’t feel packed at all.

We had some of the best people come into the gigs, you know what I mean? The first era of the Shack as it evolved was just mint. And it was honestly mint up until COVID. I’m sure you’ve seen PUG Fest, right?

SWIM: Yes, yes. I’m hoping to be there this summer!

SHACK: I guess PUG Fest is essentially DIY Burning Man 3. Mica from Something Missing came down and played a Shack show when they were still a teenager. They recently graduated college and apparently started DIY Burning Man because of the Shack.

SWIM: Oh, that’s so cool.

SHACK: PUG Fest is working with a way bigger venue that’s 800-900-cap and can work with way bigger bands. The fact that something like that started because of what the Shack did is mind-blowing. Cause again, I still have no fucking clue what I’m doing. I find bands I think are cool, I find people that I think are cool, and I smash ’em together and see what happens.

SWIM: It’s something you can really only see in retrospect, too. Who would’ve guessed that mashing those random people and bands together led to so many fucking cool shows and music?

You don’t really see all that shit until years down the line, and you’re looking back. Looking at all these shows, even on the Facebook Events page, you can kind of see how one thing led to the next. Speaking of which, what came after Fauxchella III?

SHACK: Oh God. Yeah. We went fucking ham after Fauxchella III. Holy shit. I can’t believe my roommates were cool with all this. So, yeah, after Fauxchella III, I was jazzed. We made the switch to Howard’s, and we were really sour about it, but it really came to fruition pretty well. So I decided to book eight shows in May. The skyrocket is insane, and they were all at the house, which is wacky to think about.

There were seven shows in June, and then there was Sword Fest. Jack (of Mover Shaker) called me and was just like, “Hey, I’ve got Pool Kids, Mover Shaker, and ****** for this random Wednesday in June,” and I was like, I already have four touring bands, but I would do it if you can convince everyone else to do it. For some god-forsaken reason, everybody was down.

We booked and promoted it relatively quickly; we had like a month, I think. Probably still our coolest promotional thing that we did was the video with the fake Final Fantasy RPG, but putting stupid DIY jokes as the moves and stuff like that. I still think that we peaked in terms of promotional ability right there.

So Fauxchella III hits, and I start booking a stupid volume of shows at the house. Then Sword Fest hits, which just kind of fell into our lap. Then right after Sword Fest, we took the Shack team with Equipment and American Spirits to New Jersey and helped L.E.A.D. DIY throw Strobeless.

Ellie Hart was like, “What if we did a fest in Jersey?” And I was like, “Okay, hell yeah.” And then Ellie and Hannah did most of the work. They had a dope team of people in New Jersey that I had the pleasure of meeting and liked working alongside to help throw the show. Yeah, the lineup was actually kind of crazy as well.

Then, from Sword Fest and Strobleless, I was just like, ‘Well, we might as well do a fest in the fall.’ You know? We did one in the spring, and we did one in the summer, what if we did Fallchella?

We joke tweeted about DIY prom, and people really latched onto it for some reason. So I was like, fuck it, I guess it’s DIY Prom — fuck Fallchella.

SWIM: It’s hard to describe from my perspective. I keep coming back to 2019 because I just went to this random festival in April, cause I was like, “Oh, I like Origami Angel.” And then to follow Summit Shack over the course of that year, and, holy shit, you guys just keep doing all of these gatherings. I was like, damn, the Midwest is fucking cool.

SHACK: Somewhere in the middle of that, we did our two-year anniversary show with Barely Civil, The Weak Days, Teamonade, American Spirits, and Mess.

Then in September, we didn’t do any shows except for DIY Prom, which was 24 bands and six comedians. And this was also American Spirits’ last show.

SWIM: Oh yeah, you guys capped it off! I just remember everyone chanting your name cause it was like, “You fucking did this Conor.” You guys had just finished playing your last set, and it was just very heartwarming.

SHACK: I’m pretty sure I visibly broke down on stage. It was very touching.

SWIM: So that gets us up to Snowchella almost.

SHACK: We had DIY Prom in September 2019, and then this is a very pivotal moment. Friday, October 4th, Summerbruise played the shack for the first time… And then played the Summit Shack way more times after.

SWIM: Aside from American Spirits and Half Kidding, is there a definitive “Summit Shack Band”? Could you even boil it down to one?

SHACK: There are four bands that I would consider Shack bands who aren’t members of the Shack. I think it’s Equipment, Teamonade, Discount Nostalgia, and Summerbruise. Discount Nostalgia was our first local band that really played the Shack a lot. They were just really good homies of ours and an amazing band. Then Teamonade because they got their start at the Shack. Equipment became a Bowling Green local after they played the Shack for the first time. Then Summerbruise essentially became a Bowling Green local from multiple hours away.

[The two of us digress, discussing mostly-defunct Midwest bands, then get back to the timeline]

[We had] DIY Prom in September, then all of October did a bunch of shows. November did a bunch of shows. Oh, that’s when Cliffdiver played the Shack in November 2019. Jess, a friend of ours from Cleveland who had come to many Shack shows over the years, messaged me and was just like, “Hey, there’s this band from Oklahoma. I really want to play at your house. Can I book a show there?” And it turned out to be fucking Cliffdiver, pre-pop-off, and they just played to like 30 people in the Shack.

Capo Fest and Sled Fest both happened in the summer 2019 and winter of 2019. Those were both fests in Chicago that we didn’t really help out with, but we were very good friends with the people running it, and Half Kidding played. I remember Addie asking for tips and stuff like that. They didn’t need any help. Addie had that shit on lock.

SWIM: And that was what led to “Bella,” right? Again, another example of a domino effect.

SHACK: Yeah, that’s where the Half Kidding song “Bella” came from. It was Capo or Sled, I can’t remember which one.

Saturday, December 21st. Equipment EP release show, Invite The Neighbor’s 50th podcast with Gami, Cheem, Parkway & Columbia, and In A Daydream. Jesus. There are some wild videos of the Shack going bonkers for Gami cuz that was post-Somewhere City. Quippy was really just starting to catch cause Madrigal had done really well, so people went bonkers for both bands. That was also my first exposure to Cheem, who I just booked a tour for.

We did the New Year’s show. Bunch of shows in January. We did Showchella on January 25th, 2020, and it went fucking awesome. Really crazy lineup again. Sonder Bombs, Mover Shaker, Short Fictions, Plans, Teamonade, Gray Matter. She/Her/Hers, Snarls, Weak Days, Sweet Peach, Punch Drunk, Summerbruise. Former Critics- Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah.

So this was, this was definitely in the primo era where I had started filling in for bands. So right after DIY Prom is when I filled in for World’s Greatest Dad at Fest. Which, again, just catapulted me into like, “Yeah, this is sick, I wanna keep doing this, this is awesome.”

Then the Teamonade, Summerbruise, Half Kidding Tour, which was one of the only things Half Kidding did before COVID. There was Equipment, String Machine, Biitchseat, Summerbruise, for the Scratchy Blanket album release at Leapfest. So it’s like oozing Shack vibes with some of the bands that they got on it. Leapfest in Pittsburgh was on February 29th, literally 12 days before everything shut down, so I guess that is technically the last fest we helped out with.

SWIM: Yeah. I remember you guys had announced Fourchella, And at that point, I had moved to Denver, but I bought a ticket. I was like, “I’m coming back for this!” and was all stoked. You guys had announced it, and then the rest of the world happened and had to pull the plug. I feel like you guys did make lemons into lemonade with all the Minecraft stuff a little bit.

SHACK: Yeah, prior to when things shut down in early to mid-March, we had been playing like a bunch of Minecraft, just on a realm in the Discord. The Discord was Ian (who lived at the Shack), Kate (who also lived at the Shack), Trey, Matt, Chance, Joey, and Serg. Marco from Kiss Your Friends and a number of other people from Michigan all hopped on to help us build everything. In less than a month, we made Minechella, and we did it on the same day that Fourchella was supposed to be: April 17th and April 18th.

We literally had a chat called “minechella lol” because, at that point, it was just such a goofy concept. The process that we went through to record everything was streaming to Twitch, but also streaming in Discord so that we could have Chance flipping between Discord screens of the people that were the “cameras” for the fest.

So we essentially made it so the festival could be multi-camera, and we could switch between different shots. We had some people who were working on aesthetic shots and some people who were documenting people jumping around and the music playing and stuff like that.

I’m sure if I went back and watched, it would be incredibly clunky, but we had a month, and none of us had ever done anything quite like that before. That was just an enormous team effort: 30–40 people all chipped in to make that happen.

SWIM: And at the time, no one knew when we were gonna be able to see shit again. So it was a godsend really to have something that communal translated digitally. And I do think all that effort showed in the end product.

SHACK: I’m looking at the Facebook event, and the description literally says, “We doin’ it big on Minecraft. 4/17 to 4/18, 1:00 PM to midnight.” That’s all it says.

SWIM: Say no more.

SHACK: Doing it big on Minecraft, that’s so goofy. Then that extended into the Shack Craft Monthlies. Beach Bunny submitted an acoustic set for one of ’em. It was Beach Bunny, Save Face, Sonder Bombs, and Short Fictions.

We did Origami Angel Broke Minecraft. I’m assuming that was in either late April or early May. The server went down, again, continuing the tradition that something will go wrong at a Gami Shack show. Oh yeah, at the Equipment Madrigal release show, the soundboard crapped out. So Origami Angel was already two for two breaking Shack shit, and then the server goes down for Minecraft.

Ryland, I think a day or two before Minechella, decided to completely revamp the set they were gonna do and did the kind of like lo-fi remixes.

SWIM: Yeah, I remember you posted the text, and they were just like, “Yo, can I, can I do a dubstep set?” And you were like, “Yeah, sure.”

SHACK: At that point, I was like, literally whatever anybody wants to do, we’ll showcase it. In a weird way, it’s kind of returning to the Same Co. roots of just whatever you have to showcase, this is a platform for it.

SWIM: And now it’s cool that set is documented on that EP basically as it was presented. And that’s such a cool document of a terrible time in the world, but it’s at least something good.

SHACK: A silver lining.

SWIM: You pulled all that out of 2020 and got back to it by last year, which is so fucking cool. After burnout and COVID just wreaking havoc on everyone’s mental health, then it’s just like, “Okay, at what point is it safe to start planning something like this again?”

SHACK: October 2021 was our first show back, and it was with Summerbruise, Carpool, Equipment, and Half Kidding at Howard’s. At this point, everybody had moved out; Lisa and I live here alone now, so we did all of our shows at Howard’s from that point on.

SWIM: Keep your space.

SHACK: December 2021 through April 2022 were very sparse. We did so few shows, and most of these were Ellie's shows. This is when Ellie started working at Howard’s cause at some point over COVID, we all drove to pick up Ellie from Jersey and moved them to Bowling Green, and now Ellie is more of a local than I am.

June 2022, Ellie booked the Weatherday, Michael Cera Palin, Oolong, Summerbruise, Waving, and Brown Maple show. And then Fauxchella V. I’m trying to figure out when we were just, “Yeah, we’re back.”

I wanna say we probably started booking Fauxchella V like six months out, so realistically it was probably January 2022 when I started. I remember I sat down with everybody and I was like, “Okay, we have to decide if we just wanna say fuck it.” Like yeah, there’s still COVID, tours are still getting canceled, all of this stuff is still happening… But if we’re gonna get back into it, we need to do it now, or I’m gonna move.

Not necessarily holding everything ransom, but I was just, I can’t live in Bowling Green anymore if I’m not gonna do Bowling Green stuff. You know what I mean? Lisa and I were considering moving somewhere else, and I was considering just sucking it up and getting a job job and actually just being a career person. But that’s not fulfilling. I was gonna be depressed as shit doing that, and I knew that. And since getting back into the swing of things, I’ve definitely kind of reconfirmed for myself that I wanna expand on this in one way or another.

We did Fauxchella V once again, just like DMing bands on Twitter. But at this point, like almost everybody that I had reached out to is at least somewhat aware of the Shack.

SWIM: And it feels like the reach is farther than ever for Fauxchella VI. You’ve leaked various incarnations of that lineup to me, and this is probably the biggest one yet.

SHACK: We’re doing three days: Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. It’s like a 10-hour day, a 13-hour day, and a 9-hour day. We’re having Damb come out, and kind of help be an organizer with Ellie and me, along with JJ from JJ’s Bar and Grill and X-Ray Arcade.

SWIM: And it’s still at Howard’s too, right?

SHACK: Yep. Still at Howard’s.

SWIM: Paid now.

SHACK: Yeah. Fauxchella III was free, and then Sword Fest was $5. DIY Prom was, I wanna say $10 or $20. Snowchella was $10 or $20, and then Fauxchella V was $30 presale, $40 at the door.

SWIM: Man, inflation for real.

SHACK: True.

SWIM: But, also like an incredibly small price to pay to see like 30 bands really.

SHACK: I mean, we’re really keeping the whole dollar-per-band guarantee alive. I think we’ve got 60-something bands and we’re gonna do $60 for a full weekend pass.

SWIM: Okay. Last I had was like 45 on the list that you sent me, so I, yeah, I need a new lineup.

SHACK: Yeah, I love to do stupid shit. I go in assuming that they’re all gonna say no, and then they all say yes, and then I have way more bands than I anticipated.

SWIM: I think that’s the theme of this whole interview, really.

SHACK: I like shooting shots just for the sake of shooting shots. And every party was interested, and I was just like, okay, this was like a goofy pipe dream.

Michael Cera Palin and Dikembe are doing three days around Fauxchella. The Riley!/Ben Quad tour that just happened mainly happened because of them both being on Fauxchella V last year. Just so many little things that all domino effect into these crazy ideas that I now have for the future.

You know, all in all, the past month and a half, it just feels good to be back. Fauxchella V really kicked me back into gear a little bit. It kind of kicked me in the butt, and then starting booking with Fauxchella VI.

Cheem posted about needing a tour booked, and I was just like, ah, I’d book a tour for Cheem. And it was like their most successful one yet! The leg Seaholm did with Riley was their most successful tour yet. And it’s just kind of blowing my mind that it’s working.

Cause, again, the theme of it all is I have no fucking clue what I’m doing. Like, I am like flying by the seat of my pants at all times and just learning in the process. I’ve been very lucky to have a team of people with the Shack and a team of people doing this all across the Midwest that have offered all sorts of tips and advice and knowledge to help make these things not only feasible but productive and run well.

And, you know, even since we started charging for the fests, all of the money after covering overhead goes back into the bands. So it is like truly what people put in is what bands get out of it.

January 04, 2023

Your Life in a Grid: An Interview with the Owner of Tapmusic.net

January 04, 2023/ Taylor Grimes

If you’re a music nerd on Twitter, you’re probably familiar with the deluge of images that get posted every Friday. A funky little 5x5 grid depicting the 25 albums that its owner listened to most over the last seven days. Sometimes people post a 3x3, other times a 4x4, but regardless of which combination they choose, the ritual and cadence are still the same; share what you’ve been listening to over the past week. It’s called 5x5 Friday.

There are a few different sites that can generate a collage like this, but the most popular is one called Tapmusic.net. The website is barebones, centered around a primary homepage with a singular function: to generate these charts.

When you visit the site, your eyes are most likely to be drawn towards the giant header near the top of the page proudly announcing “Last.fm collage generator” in big, 70-point font. Beneath it reads something of a mission statement: “Because what's the point in listening to music if you can't let others know?” The following sentence instructs the user what to do in a perfectly efficient way, with only one word of pride poking through the otherwise modest explanation. It reads, “Use our generator to create astonishing album collages based on your Last.fm charts!” And astonish us they do.

Every week, thousands of users flock to this website to type in their last.fm username and watch as Tapmusic renders an image that feels like a musical summation of their week. Sometimes the results surprise us; other times, they're perfectly on-brand. Either way, for a certain type of music geek, this weekly repetition has become a sort of hypnotic ritual. You made it to Friday? Time to celebrate with a chart! End of the month? Make a chart for the last 30 days! Trying to claw your way through the dregs of December? No better way to kill some time and send off the year than a big chart depicting the last 12 months!

There’s something endlessly fulfilling about this practice. If you listen to enough music, seeing the results of your listening habits splayed out in a perfectly lined-up little grid every week is practically guaranteed to release a splash of serotonin in your brain. And when people “like” your chart? Forget about it. Sometimes they spark discussion, sometimes an artist will retweet it, and sometimes your friends will clown on you for a bizarre record that made its way onto the last row. Anything can happen on 5x5 Friday.

Probably one of the coolest weekly charts I’ve ever posted if I’m being honest. pic.twitter.com/gDqzLwDzlB
— taylor (@GeorgeTaylorG) November 11, 2022

At the beginning of 2022, I committed myself to a year-long Twitter thread dedicated to housing my monthly charts. There’s something incredibly satisfying about scrolling through that thread and seeing my own little year-in-review broken down month-by-month like that. To see my music journey over the past year on little squares all lined up like toy soldiers in a box. To see my life in a grid.

Tapmusic.net is a vital cornerstone of the online music community. An endlessly-renewable resource that allows anyone with the right accounts linked up to see their music taste in an instant snapshot. Weekly charts are a fast way to sing the praises of the artists and albums you like, transparently showing what the user has spent the most time listening to over the past week. It’s a celebration of music and a visually appealing way to show people what you like.

These grids also allow one to engage with other music fans almost instantly. Oh, you post your weekly chart on Twitter too? Odds are we could kill a good 10 to 30 minutes talking about music together if we ever met in real life. Odds are you’re a pretty solid follow. Even if we run in completely different circles, you’re probably at least a little bit of a music nerd like me.

The very first iteration of Tapmusic, circa 2011

Since 2010, Tapmusic has served a growing userbase, helping people share their listening habits in ways that few other platforms do. And all of this is free, funded mainly off a pay-if-you-want donation system.

The About page describes Tapmusic as “the web's premiere site for generating collages based on last.fm user history” and credits exactly three people. Or should I say three usernames. It lists, “The core team is comprised of silverhawk79 (administration, generator), AntaresMHD (generator), and xzwqt (design).” Each name links out to a corresponding last.fm page and nothing more. That’s how you know you’re dealing with real-deal music fans.

Tapmusic is a part of so many people’s weekly music routine, yet little is known about it other than the occasional update pinned to the top of the home page. I recently reached out via Tapmusic’s contact form to see if any of the creators would be interested in talking to me about the site’s history. The owner of Tapmusic, Aaron Hudspeth, quickly responded and was happy to sit down with me to discuss everything from his own music taste to what possible things lie ahead for the site. If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like behind the scenes of a niche online music fan fixture, then you’ve come to the right place.

SWIM: First off, how would you describe your music fandom? What kind of music are you into?

AARON HUDSPETH: I’m kind of all over the place, but I tend towards the heavier side of things. Thrice and Gojira top my charts, but I’ve also got a soft spot for Modest Mouse and The Cure. I try not to be a music snob, but I can be extraordinarily picky about finding new music to listen to.

SWIM: You’ve been using last.fm since 2006, what’s your history with that platform?

HUDSPETH: Honestly, I signed up because of 4chan. Back in the day, I was very active on the /mu/ (music) board under the name ‘Wait, what?’ (some people may still recognize that name!). I kept seeing threads posted about a site called last.fm and how it could track your music and give you recommendations, so I was intrigued. It did help me discover new music and make quite a few friends, and I’m glad I found it.

SWIM: The “About Us” page says you started Tapmusic back in 2010. What were the early days of this project like?

HUDSPETH: The early days were about as barebones as it could get. I was in an IRC chat with some other folks from 4chan, where I ended up meeting the creator of the original 3x3 script, Daniel (credited as AntaresMHD on the site). I offered to host the script on my server, which was otherwise sitting unused, and I created a quick n’ dirty interface for it. It was extremely basic, literally only an option to choose the time range and enter your username. The name Tapmusic actually came from a failed project from my early college days, where me and some friends thought we could create the next big music-based social media site. It ultimately went nowhere, but I kept the domain name for a few years juuust in case and ended up using it for this new collage site.

SWIM: How many charts does Tapmusic generate in an average week?

HUDSPETH: As a conservative estimate, I would say anywhere between 40,000 to 50,000, though that number spikes very heavily near the end of the year – on Dec 31st, there were over 28,000 generated in one day!

SWIM: What’s your day-to-day interaction with the site (if at all)?

HUDSPETH: The site itself is mostly self-sufficient, but I check in on the server at least once a day to see if any updates need to be installed or to check if anything looks like it is out of whack. Downtime for the site is extremely limited, as I keep a close eye on any potential problems and try to mitigate them before they become any bigger.

SWIM: How much music do you listen to, and how often do you use Tapmusic to generate your own charts?

HUDSPETH: I listen to music constantly in one form or another, but admittedly I don’t generate many collages of my own through Tapmusic – maybe once a month, just to get a broad overview of what I’ve been obsessing over.

SWIM: From the outside, you seemingly run this entire thing by yourself with minimal outside support or influence. Do you consider yourself DIY?

HUDSPETH: I would say so, yeah. I have resisted running ads for pretty much the entire life of the site, and only very recently decided to partner with an ad company to help with costs. I am very vigilant about making the site as user-friendly as possible, so I want to make sure any advertising is unobtrusive.

SWIM: Back in November, you posted a message that you were taking a break from monitoring the site for your wedding. How’s married life treating you?

HUDSPETH: Honestly, it’s been about the same as pre-married life! Not that that’s a bad thing – we had been together for nine years before deciding to finally tie the knot, so not much changed in terms of our relationship.

SWIM: When did you first decide to add a donation button to the site, and what have the results been like over time?

HUDSPETH: I believe it was about 7 or 8 years ago, and it was around the time I was able to modify the basic 3x3 script into a larger 10x10 version. At the time, our server was not nearly powerful enough to handle everyone generating a large collage like that constantly, so I decided I would make it a somewhat more exclusive feature to avoid overloading the site. Over time, donations have allowed me to upgrade the server to be more and more powerful.

SWIM: You recently made some Premium-only features like 10x10’s available to all users, so it seems Tapmusic is growing and “performing” well. When did you guys decide to implement this change, and why?

HUDSPETH: After discussing it a bit with Daniel and evaluating the performance of our current server, I decided that it would be able to handle the increased load. It was a fairly recent decision, put into place at the end of November 2022, actually. On top of that, I had recently acquired a (much) higher-paying job and didn’t feel right continuing to ask people for money to help with server costs. I’m not in this for any sort of profit, I just like providing a service for people to enjoy.

SWIM: Are you aware of the Topster Guy? In the past year, he’s posted some questionable conspiracy theorist messaging in the sidebar of his site, which, when contrasted with weddings and adding features, has led some people to some people consider him your “Wario.” Do all you music website guys know each other in real life?

HUDSPETH: I’m aware of him but don’t know much about him aside from his views – I very purposefully avoid using Tapmusic as any kind of a platform for my views because it doesn’t seem like the time or place to try and force it on anyone else. I have been contacted a few times in the past by people who are building their own collage sites, and I have helped them with advice or bits of code, but other than that, I don’t think I’ve been in contact with any other music website folks.

SWIM: The site is charmingly barebones, but a recent update claimed that you’ve been improving the service and plan on rolling out new features soon. Anything you can tease or let us know at this point? Will the site be getting updated more regularly in the future?

HUDSPETH: Yes! We are planning to make the collage page a bit more feature-rich, with integrated sharing tools and easier downloading. We also aim to implement a feature that will generate a text-based list of the albums in the collage as well, similar to Topster. We are also looking into bringing back artist-based collages, as, unfortunately, I had to remove that functionality a few years back due to changes on last.fm’s end. It may be making a return at some point!

SWIM: Do you view the site’s current straightforwardness as a design principle or just a byproduct of when and how it was created?

HUDSPETH: I view it as a design principle – I want it to be as easy to use as possible, with a very quick load time. People get frustrated if a site takes too long to load or has loads of popups or other distractions, so I like to keep Tapmusic clean and fairly sparse.

SWIM: What’s the long-term plan for Tapmusic? Any final thoughts? Charts forever.

HUDSPETH: Perhaps an app! Or a Discord bot? I plan to keep the site running for as long as humanly possible. I also want to thank everyone who has used the site over the years and shown their support – I literally could not have done it without you. Thanks!

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