July 20, 2026

Exploring the Atmosphere: An Interview with She’s Green

July 20, 2026/ David Williams

In a world that is becoming more chaotic and artificial by the day, the act of finding your peace has never been more important. The environment that we surround ourselves with is essential to maintaining our sanity and cultivating our creative inner world. Rising indie rock band She’s Green recognize this and have tailored their specific act of creation by going back to basics on the most human and naturalistic level. The Minneapolis quintet has made a habit of heading to various forests, lakes, and quarries to center themselves while creating the kind of music that not only replenishes their own souls but also those of the fans who listen to their music.

The band – comprised of singer Zofia Smith, guitarists Liam Armstrong and Raines Lucas, drummer Kevin Seebeck, and bassist Teddy Nordvold – has established a worldwide following solely off a few EPs and a handful of singles. The music these five create speaks for itself with lush textures that are richly melodic, designed to draw you into inescapable dreamy atmospheres. Their songs have a cinematic quality, where one stroke of a guitar can feel gut-wrenching, then exhilarating at the drop of a hat. Smith’s otherworldly vocal range, matched with the whirling dervish noisy-yet-melodic guitar leads, is a combination that is just killer, and it’s clear as day why this band is connecting with so many people before they even have a proper debut album under their belts.

The group’s newest EP, swallowtail, has the gratifying feeling of a band finally putting together the pieces of their true potential. Opening track “locket” possesses a clear reverence for the shoegaze ancestors of our collective past, nodding heartily toward the lineage of 90s greats like Slowdive and Cocteau Twins. My favorite song, the mid-album cut “mettle,” has a smoggy wash of reverb-drenched guitar riffs that are thunderous in all the right places. One track later, “keeper” is another standout in which the rich guitar textures are painted with precision, and Smith’s vocal register is yet again a major highlight. It’s one of those songs that you can put on while staring out at the night sky, glaring at the stars and getting lost in space.

I got a chance to chat with Zofia Smith and Liam Armstrong over Zoom, where we discussed everything from their patented “moss music” sound, the indie scene out in Minnesota, and touring China for the first time. We even managed to sneak in some Jonas Brothers talk.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

SWIM: I read that you describe your sound as “Moss Music.”  What does that label mean to you?

ZOFIA: Moss Music is a small thing that nourishes its environment and is very firm and dense, but also fuzzy and soft. I think that really describes our sound. Sometimes there's a love sound, and it’s a lot; then it’s heavy, and then there’s this gentleness to it. The point of us making music is to create an environment for a person to nourish their soul.

SWIM: Are there any other bands that you would consider Moss Music?

LIAM: That is so tough. I would say Jefre Cantu-Ledesma. He makes an ambient kind of tape guitar. I'm also gonna say George Harrison… And let’s get Weyes Blood in there too.

SWIM: What is it about dream pop and shoegaze that attracts you guys to make records in a similar aesthetic?

LIAM: We had a huge obsession with 90s bands, but also music with ambient textures. We wanted to see how far we could push experimentation with the sound of a guitar. In a way, we tried to make it not sound like a guitar anymore. I think this helps me paint a more grandiose picture that also leans into our interests in movies and visual art.

ZOFIA: Those sounds have always seemed captivating. I'm instantly drawn to the sounds of Beach House and that beautiful chorus reverb sound. It just invites me in, and I want to wrap up in a blanket and sink into it. This is the best, most comforting sound to me. That started my deep dive into shoegazing dream pop. That obsession made me want to try it out myself and see what I would come up with with the same sort of sounds.

SWIM: What was the first concert you ever went to?

LIAM: The first concert I went to with my dad was this folk rock band, Dawes. Then I also saw Rush with my dad. So definitely bands on different ends of the spectrum.

ZOFIA: My first one was the Jonas Brothers. I was obsessed with them. My parents were kind of in a different lane, so I got into cool music in high school, and it felt like I had all the cool discoveries a bit later than most people.

SWIM: I gotta ask, did you have a favorite Jonas brother?

ZOFIA: Nick was my favorite.

LIAM: I also went through a huge Jonas Brothers phase as a kid. My favorite was either Nick or Joe. I don't know, it’s too hard to pick.

SWIM: I think it was scientifically proven that Nick is the coolest Jonas brother. Who are we to argue with scientists? Are there bands you listened to growing up that influence what you're doing sonically today?

LIAM: Definitely, I used to listen to a lot of Coldplay and Death Cab for Cutie, because that's what my parents would throw on around the house. That music definitely opened up this kind of emotional side of me. I really just wanted to make some heartfelt music. That still always resonates with me.

ZOFIA: I don't know if the music I heard growing up did so much for me because I listened to a lot of pop music. I think that definitely has helped me with certain melodies, though; you can come up with a pop melody and put it into any song for a chorus. I was listening to Celine Dion and Mariah Carey, just a lot of female pop artists. It plays a role in the melodies that I come up with, because I was always singing around the house and taking videos of me singing certain big pop songs.

SWIM: Can you talk to me about how you come up with your melodies? Do you try to find certain pockets lyrically? How do you come about those?

ZOFIA: Honestly, I am freestyling over something that they made, or we're jamming, and it’s just gibberish coming out. I don't usually have the words first. Usually I'm diving into the instrumental, and sometimes I'll find words in that. I'll listen back, and maybe subconsciously I'm saying this or my heart is telling me that. Other times, I'll have something written beforehand if I can't come up with a melody, and I'll see what works with the lyrics I already have. But, normally I'll come up with the melody first.

SWIM: Your writing is really eclectic. Is there a specific formula in how She’s Green creates songs?

LIAM: Nowadays, we all get in the practice space, and we'll be jamming, or we'll start with somebody's guitar riff. Sometimes one of us will have a fully fleshed-out demo, and it won't get changed much. I would say we're leaning more towards writing as a group and building off something that someone brings to a practice session.

SWIM: How difficult is it to write within a group of people as opposed to solo?

LIAM: It was definitely something that we all had to learn together, but I feel after touring with each other for so long and practicing so much together, we're all super comfortable now.

SWIM: I’m always fascinated by how bands come up with names. How did you decide on She's Green?

LIAM: We were just throwing out names. I think there was something about She’s Green that was kind of vague, but you can also apply a lot of meaning to it. The name kind of paints a metaphorical picture. She’s Green sounded cool and, for us, symbolized Mother Nature in a way because we are all really into plants.

ZOFIA: I like that the name has a feminine identity. I know we're a band where I'm the only woman in the group, but our music is honestly pretty feminine from our melodies and everything that we're doing. I just think it's cool that we have a feminine-sounding name.

SWIM: What were some of the names that were on the cutting room floor?

ZOFIA: Moon Due was an option, and before that, Liam and I had released a couple of songs under the name Sad Films.

SWIM: You described your love of 90s music earlier. Are there any 90s bands you would love to dream of playing with?

ZOFIA: Slowdive is my number one. Every time I've seen them, I'm overwhelmed. It’s just so, so beautiful.

LIAM: We're playing with Chapterhouse. They're a very sick band from the 90s, and that's a dream come true.

SWIM: Is there a song you're most proud of creating on swallowtail?

LIAM: I'm gonna say “close your eyes” because it's a song we've had for a really long time and we’re finally ready to get it out there.

ZOFIA: Yeah, that one specifically we were sitting on for a long time, and we were messing with the instrumentation for a while, shortening parts, lengthening parts, and re-organizing them. We’ve been working on that song for two and a half years. We finally have this beautiful song, and it feels complete, and I don't want to change anything. It just feels so rewarding to have that payoff.

SWIM: When you have a song that takes two and a half years to create, how do you fight through that? Do you go at the song head-on, attacking it daily? Do you just let it simmer for a bit? What kind of methods do you work through with writer’s block on a song?

ZOFIA: We put that song on the back burner for a second and took some time away from it because I wanted to have a clear head going in. That way we could listen with a new perspective on what it needs. I think we gave “close your eyes” a few months, actually. We just kept giving it more space to breathe.

LIAM: It's also been kind of tough for us to really sit down and work on stuff in between touring. Some stuff just gets pushed to the back. There are still things that we would find that I say, “Wow, this is really cool.” It's a constant barrage of information that brings a lot of the good ideas, but also takes time to really find them.

ZOFIA: Our bassist Teddy was the one who figured out “close your eyes.” He knew right away what he wanted while we were practicing, so that definitely helps when someone comes in and knows exactly what they want to do with a song.

SWIM: How was it touring in China? How big of a culture shock was it going from your home state of Minnesota all the way to China?

LIAM: It was wild. I had been to Asia before, and our other guitarist, Raines, has been as well. It was just an insane experience. It helped a lot that Raines actually speaks Mandarin, so it was really fun to communicate more easily with the locals. The food is amazing, everything is affordable, and it's easy to get around. All the crowds were so tuned-in and very polite.

ZOFIA: It was cute. We had Raines on the end of the stage because he could have conversations with people. We could move him along, and then they could talk to him, and it was so sweet to hear from them. We got a bunch of letters from them.

But it was so nice having Raines there. There were a lot of people that said to us, “I'll take you for a ride, come with me,” and Raines would say, “Okay guys, let's go.” We'd just be in some random person's car. We don't know what they're saying up front. We don't know what's happening. But it's so sweet to see how they open up to Raines and how interested they are in our culture. They're speaking with him about politics, and it was so cool to get that perspective. A lot of people were like, “If you're going to China, be careful,” but it just felt so safe, and everyone was so sweet.

SWIM: How did that feel when people on the opposite side of the world are so attentive and caring about your songs and connecting to your music?

LIAM: It was unbelievable. We were not expecting that at all. I was worried there would be around 10 to 20 people at every show, but it blew us away to have near sellouts every night.

ZOFIA: We were shocked. These venues have a capacity of 300 to 500. We just thought there's no way people are gonna show up, you know? We're gonna get like 15 people, but it was actually bigger than our normal show in America. Honestly, it’s unreal. People had signs they made for us. They wanted to take pictures.

SWIM: To take things back home, your sounds are very scenic. Is there a favorite forest or nature walk you like to go back stateside?

LIAM: We really love St. Croix Falls near River Falls, Wisconsin. There's also Kinnickinnic State Park. It’s a really clean trout stream, and it's nice to get down there because it feels like a different world. We just hang out, take acoustic guitars, and write.

SWIM: Do you have any favorite bands from Minnesota?

LIAM: Yeah, definitely, The Replacements, obviously. Bands that are currently kind of up and coming are like Lana Leone, Mother Soki, and Berzica.

SWIM: How tight-knit is the Minnesota indie scene?

LIAM: It's super welcoming. I mean, people are always willing to help you out with anything you need. It’s so inclusive and also safe. A lot of people really look out for each other. I don't think we would have started playing in a band if we hadn't seen all these cool bands growing up.

ZOFIA: I had been going to local shows since high school, so it was really just such a welcoming and tight-knit community, and everybody kind of knows each other, even if you're playing in a different genre. It's not just like a folk show or an emo show, you know, we kind of cross paths with the lineups. I love that.

SWIM: Is there anything you would like to accomplish before releasing your debut album?

LIAM: Just taking everything in, I feel like right now, we're kind of in the brainstorming stage of creating. It's all up in the air. I think it's finding the time to actually sit down and write. We'll probably end up going somewhere, maybe this winter, like a cabin, to start writing it. But right now it's basically all ideas. I mean, we have some songs written and some we're still working on, but I think it'd be really cool to sit down and try to conceptualize the album itself.

ZOFIA: I personally wanted to be more thought-out, like creating a story and a theme. It would be fun to have a visualizer for the whole thing, like a movie. That would be an ideal scenario where we could come up with some sort of plot and get a cohesive video because our music is very cinematic. I'm excited about some of our ideas from what we've been working on and making something out of that.

SWIM: Speaking of cinematic, you both directed your music video “paper thin.” How fun was it creating from another platform?

LIAM: That was super fun. It’s something that we also get to do on the side just for fun because all of us are really into films. It was really fun to try our hand at that.

ZOFIA: It was cool to have direction that day. We had a plan, but it was cool to be like, ‘let's do this. No, let's do this.’ That was a fun environment; nobody was being intense, and we didn't feel stressed about timing. We were just kind of going with the flow. That ended up being one of our favorite videos because it was just a lot of fun and low stakes.

SWIM: Final question. With both of you being big film buffs, what's your favorite movie you've seen this year? It could be new or old.

ZOFIA: Honestly, Purple Rain. It’s a Minnesota classic. I hadn’t seen that movie until recently, and it was awesome. It’s really inspiring.

LIAM: For me, this Cantonese film called Love on Delivery, that we just went and saw in the theater. It was so funny and just a good time. It was hilarious. I definitely recommend that. You're looking for a goofy movie.

David is a content mercenary based in Chicago. He’s also a freelance writer specializing in music, movies, and culture. His hidden talents are his mid-range jump shot and the ability to always be able to tell when someone is uncomfortable at a party. You can find him scrolling away on Instagram @davidmwill89, Twitter @Cobretti24, or Medium @davidmwms.

July 13, 2026

Hurry – Zoned Out | Album Review

July 13, 2026/ Josh Ejnes

I didn’t notice how much broken glass was strewn across my neighborhood until I got a dog. Once I got an animal and needed to worry about it, I started to see glass everywhere. Almost immediately, I went from being totally ignorant to uncomfortably aware.

I had a similar thing happen with power pop. For most of my life, I didn’t really know what power pop was. Sure, I’d come across it from time to time—“Surrender” in Guitar Hero II, “My Name is Jonas” in Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, etc.—but I hardly noticed it, and I certainly never thought about it categorically. Then, I started perusing music Twitter regularly, where it felt like every third post was about the genre. Suddenly, power pop was everywhere. I’d hit a bar and Teenage Fanclub would be blasting over the speakers. I’d walk into a thrift store and trip over a box of Dave Edmunds records. Out of nowhere, my uncle started talking to me about the dBs. Once again, I’d gone from totally ignorant to uncomfortably aware.

Somewhat serendipitously, both of these shifts came around the same time, with me growing fond of Nick Lowe’s “I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass” right as I was beginning to despair at the sight of it. This also synced up pretty perfectly with the release of an album called Don’t Look Back from the band Hurry, which quickly became my favorite thing to listen to as I walked the streets and shepherded my dog away from shattered Miller Lites. To be honest, I’d say that record, more than anything, is probably what drove my budding interest in power pop; if there was more music out there that sounded like that, I wanted to know about it. Now, three years later, both my dog and my understanding of power pop have matured, the glass situation remains unchanged, and we have a new Hurry record.

As much as I loved Don’t Look Back, I have to say that Zoned Out is an even better record, and a lot of that has to do with synths. The heavy lifting that synths are doing here is kind of deceptive. Make no mistake, this is still a guitar-first record, but directly beneath that are synth lead lines that are secretly drawing your ear and supporting a ton of the best melodies throughout the album.

The first track, “All Sunk In,” is maybe the best example of this. The song starts with a nice, crunchy guitar; the vocals come in, and soon the full band enters. For that first minute or so, you’re rocking out with (what seems like) a classic four-piece power pop guitar rock configuration, but when the chorus hits, you hear this high synth lead line get elevated from the background to the midground. As the guitar parts converge and become more stationary, this synth keeps moving around and is really the platform that the main vocal melody is working off of. We also get this secondary benefit of that line disappearing to make room for the guitar solo after the chorus, which makes it feel like the lead guitar is Kyrie Irving calling for an iso—really great stuff.

Another place where the synth is a secret MVP is on the closing solo of the record’s lead single, “Zoned Out.” Here, instead of clearing out to make room for the guitar lead, the synth joins it, creating more of a Lob City situation. Because the synth is fairly clean and essentially doubles what the guitar is doing, it leaves an opening for the guitar tone to get way nastier than it could otherwise. Then, when that falls away during the last repetition of the clean chorus, the contrast makes it feel extra dreamy, allowing it to fully wash over you.

Looking at things on a more macro level, “Just Fine” is the track that I found myself going back to the most. It has my favorite hook on the record, with Matt Scottoline singing, “Do you believe me, baby? That I’m not turning back. / Do you believe me, baby? I’m staying on the track / I keep saying I’m not turning back.” One reason this hits so hard is that the song's verses are about how things in this relationship are totally alright, then everything fully cuts out before we launch into that chorus, which is such a great articulation of projected self-doubt. On top of that, it’s a total earworm, boasting the kind of melody that power pop is all about.

On “Complications,” we see these themes furthered, this time as more of an inward meditation on that same self-doubt. “I’ve got no time for reflection / I can’t retreat into my mind,” Scottoline sings, “We’ve had our fill of conversations baby / I know I shouldn’t be surprised.” It’s a natural progression of the feelings expressed in the chorus of “Just Fine,” with the angst caused by those projections more fully realized.

To get even more macro here, let’s talk about how Zoned Out fits into power pop as a whole. If you end up in the corners of the internet that first attracted me to the genre, half of what you’ll find is arguments about what is and isn’t power pop. This is something I’ve thought about quite a bit myself, and it was certainly on my mind while listening to Zoned Out. My personal criteria is referential and abstract in a way that may make it unhelpful, but I’m going to share it with you here anyway.

The Fountains of Wayne b-side compilation Out-Of-State Plates starts with a clip from NPR where rock critic Ken Tucker proclaims “Hip-hop, country music, and post-grunge squall can take a partial summer vacation. I’m applying some #45 sunblock and putting up a sign saying: ‘gone fishing for power pop’.” When I think about what power pop is, that's what I think of. To me, power pop sounds like something you’d find jumping out of the water at your local lake; music that makes it feel like the sun’s beating down on you. That’s how I feel when I listen to “Starry Eyes” by The Records or “Black and White” by The dBs—the two most down-the-middle examples of power pop I’m able to provide. It’s what keeps me coming back to these songs by lovesick artists who seem to wish rock music hadn’t strayed so far from the template the Beatles provided us with back in the 60s. There've been a lot of great power pop and power pop-adjacent records put out in recent years, but none have done more to deliver that specific feeling to me than Zoned Out. Beyond anything technical about production or sage about the lyrics, that’s really what sticks with me here.

Put even more succinctly: power pop is the best genre and Zoned Out is masterfully executed power pop. Use the transitive property, and that should tell you all you need to know.

Josh Ejnes is a writer and musician living in Chicago. He has a blog about cassette tapes called Tape Study that you can find here, and he also makes music under the name Cutaway Car.

July 10, 2026

Welcome to the Rosy Red World: An Interview with Pat King of Labrador

July 10, 2026/ Connor Fitzpatrick

*Photo by Jay Lieby, Layout by Chad Jewett*

These times are unprecedented. Have you heard that before? It’s all too easy to get caught in the dust devil of inane and insane news that is constantly swirling around our heads. So how do you find clarity amongst the turmoil? I wish I knew. Actually, I was hoping you might be able to tell me. It’s likely there isn’t a one-size-fits-all answer. As time moves on, we’ll probably have to find new solutions because the old ones just don’t work the way they used to.

Maybe it’s all as simple as tearing it down to the studs and listening to some politically charged rock ‘n roll. That’s where Labrador comes in with their new album The Rosy Red World, boasting ten songs that continue the tradition of American protest music. The album sets its sights on attacking the rise of fascism, isolationism, oligarchal greed, and the Palestinian genocide, among other things. Labrador aren’t the first artists to confront these injustices in their music, but that doesn’t make what they’re doing any less important or courageous. It’s easy to become complacent toward the realities of our world, which is why it’s important to shine a light on those who are willing to speak out.

Earlier this summer, I met up with Pat King of Labrador to gain a deeper understanding of his perspective on politics, the new album, The Kinks and The Who, and what it means to be Maximum Alt-Country.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

SWIM: Now that The Rosy Red World has been out for a month and you’ve taken it on tour, what’s the reception been like?

PAT: It's been really great. This album doesn't shy away from being political, and we played our biggest hometown show here at Johnny Brenda's, which is one of the big spots to play in Philadelphia. Onstage, I got to introduce our songs, and I always like to explain what they're about. It made me happy to hear how well they were received by people applauding and cheering in agreement.

SWIM: The Rosy Red World is an overtly political album. Songs like “We Drew Straws” and “Metaphors For Love” feature very direct lyrics of political action. You also address the genocide in Palestine with lines like “war crimes for genocide, ceasefire now,” which is also printed across the album’s gatefold and on some of your shirts. Why was it important for you to put this message as clearly and plainly as possible?

PAT: This is one of the biggest reckonings in humanity that we're going through right now. I feel like, between the rise of fascism and the technological advancements that we have, it is so easy to check out and choose an apathetic disposition towards everything that may seem out of our control. I just thought it was disheartening to look at the indie rock landscape, or even at music you would usually find that kind of messaging in, and not see it.

I felt like this time around, especially a song like “Metaphors for Love,” which is about not hiding behind metaphors anymore, it was important to be straightforward and not dance around anything. I mean, there used to be only three stations you could watch on television, and the public had a very manufactured view of what was happening in the world. I felt like this time around, at this given moment, we're in such a different place where you have to kind of make these convictions known in a direct way.

I also think this is the quickest I've ever written an album, because I didn't labor over poetry or flowery imagery. I just wanted to say how I felt, you know? Come as completely honest and be direct as possible.

SWIM: Would you say that you mean for the album to be a wake-up call?

PAT: Well, I try not to think about it in those terms. It's certainly a wake-up call for me, for the way I wanted to write, and if that translates, that's amazing. I just hope it kind of shakes people into taking a hard look at what's happening.

SWIM: The album is filled with a ton of complex and conflicting emotions from anger and sadness, to compassion and joy. How do you strike that balance and keep things from sounding too “one-note?”

PAT: You know, for the kind of songs I'm looking for, and the kind of songs that influenced my writing, I've always been influenced by people like Ray Davies of The Kinks, Paul Weller of The Jam, and Pete Townshend of The Who. I feel like they do a great job of talking about their communities and talking about people's everyday lives, and if they heard a song that was grandstanding, they would laugh it off. So using them as a compass was a great barometer for me to attempt stuff like this.

Billy Bragg has a quote, now I'm gonna butcher it, but he said something along the lines of “all songs are political.” I think that you could be talking about love, you could be talking about sexuality, but when you think about it on a larger scheme, it's like, what do we have the “right” to do? Because of how I grew up, you know, pretty blue-collar, there was a time when we were taught that we don't have a quote-unquote “class system” in America, but now we're seeing that it does exist, and it's kind of the only war worth fighting. So I think when I talk about people, I try to talk about small facets of their lives. But I'm glad it resonated because I try to put them in the broader picture of what is happening in society at this moment. At least I'm trying to do that.

SWIM: You mention the importance of community in your writing, and I’m interested in your perspective on your own community in Philly. The city has such a vibrant scene with some big success stories, but who are the artists that you’re excited about who maybe don’t get the same attention as some of the bigger names?

PAT: I mean, there’s a bunch. There's some friends of mine. Bands like Golden Apples are incredible. You’ve got Gladie and lowercase roses. We actually recorded with Matt from Gladie, who has his own project called Memorytown. Heather Jones is great. Of course, Greg Mendez is huge – he's blowing up, as he deserves. Let me think. I feel like people always focus on the indie rock or hardcore punk stuff in Philly, but there's this great underbelly of weirdo art rock and space rock. This new band Writhing Squares is great. They're like Hawkwind mixed with The Wipers. It's awesome.

SWIM: You recently started your own record label, No Way of Knowing Records. Why was it important for you to, as you put it on the album, “seize the means of production?”

PAT: I mean, it's mostly out of necessity. There's so much about making music where you make the record, and then you're psyched on making a record and then all the other stuff – getting people to care, getting people to come to your show, sitting in a room with a ton of records – where you just feel bad about yourself, and it's hard to feel pride about doing it. I just really wanted to jump in feet first, do it, and take pride in it. It's a big undertaking, but why not go for it?

SWIM: You describe the band as “Maximum Alt-Country.” What does that mean to you? Do you view it as something different, or beyond what is normally considered alt-country?

PAT: Well, it's kind of funny. When I first started writing songs, maybe a little under twenty years ago, it just made sense in the country kind of world. I think that mainly had to do with the way that I sing and the stuff that I was listening to at that time, like Wilco, The Jayhawks, Gillian Welch, and Neko Case, those kinds of people. And I guess a little Neil Young, Byrds in there too. I've drifted away from that traditional capo third C, A, F, G style of old country and gotten deeply into rock stuff like The Who, The Jam, and The Kinks.

For the first full-band record that Labrador put out, Hold the Door for Strangers, I was joking because I didn't want to just be like, oh, ‘here's another alt-country band.’ So I called us a “bruised alt-country band” because it was a very defeated-sounding record. It was a Molina vibe, with a touch of Neil Young, and then I started wanting to write more politically.

For that record, I toured a lot solo, and by the end of playing that material as a solo artist, I was just like, I never want to be this sad alt-country guy ever again. It's just not my personality. You can almost see it on people's faces when you plug in, and you're sandwiched in between two livelier bands. It's just like, “Oh God, here's the sad guy talking about quitting drinking or women and having romantic problems.” I've done that to people, and I've also been to shows where I'm like, “Oh, God, here it is.” I just realized that, for better or worse, I’ll never get the alt-country out of my voice.

Connor is an English professor in the Bay Area, where he lives with his partner and their cat and dog, Toni and Hachi. When he isn’t listening to music or writing about killer riffs, Connor is reading fiction and obsessing over sports.

May 22, 2026

We Just Want to Live: Liberation Weekend II Recap

May 22, 2026/ Caroline Liaupsin

*All photos by Kyle Meyers // All Sketches by Galen Summers*

Naming a music festival Liberation Weekend takes some gumption. Liberation is a word I associate with only the most intense and daring of political movements, events that upend entire systems of power, carving a new path forward for a people. Not typically how I would describe a music festival. Yet Liberation Weekend, now in its second year, is willing to make this bold choice.

There is no need to recount Liberation Weekend 2025, as Swim Into The Sound had some brilliant coverage that does just the job, but there is a need to recount my Liberation Weekend 2025. A weekend where a young trans woman, hardly two months in on estrogen, not yet going by her chosen name, could be surrounded by other trans people. A weekend where she could watch other trans artists embrace themselves, their transness, and each other.

This was, in a sense, liberatory for me. A world where I could embrace my transness seemed possible. In the ensuing months, I found my voice on-air as the host of DIY Not, became ingrained in the DC DIY music community, and started playing bass for a trans punk band called thisdogllhunt. And as I have changed, so has Liberation Weekend.

In its second year, the festival has gotten bigger and (in this writer’s opinion) better. Now spanning three days instead of two, featuring late-night DJ sets and emo-centric day parties alike. The festival is split between two venues: Black Cat for the larger evening shows, and Transmission for the daytime sets and late-night after parties.

Just like last year, the festival is centered on raising money for trans people, with proceeds going to its partner orgs, Gender Liberation Movement and No More Dysphoria. Gender Liberation Movement is a non-profit group that brings together organizers, creatives, and community members to build power for gender liberation across culture, organizing, and policy. No More Dysphoria is a trans mutual aid non-profit, created to help transgender individuals pay for major aspects of their transition and necessities like housing and groceries. Early estimates from this year are looking to be around $20,000 going directly back to trans people, the people who care for them, and the people who fight for their rights.

This year’s edition of the fest sadly feels even more prescient than last. Attacks on the rights of trans people are only increasing, with the US Government designating “radical pro-transgender ideology” as a terrorist ideology on the same level as narcoterrorism. Among many of my friends, there is a growing sense of unease about our future in this country. There is a desperate need not just for the funds that an event like this can provide, but the space as well – somewhere that trans people can let their guard down, if only for a moment.

I spent the three days of Liberation Weekend looking for liberation. I searched for it in the artists on stage, the sweaty mosh pits of Transmission and Black Cat, and in the organizations fighting to make this world just a little easier for trans people. A year ago, I found it for myself. This year, I hope to find it again.

April 23: The Unofficial Liberation Weekend preshow in which Caroline watches the trans girls of DC two step to folk music

Liberation Weekend II began with what the DC trans community considered an unofficial preshow. On the night of Thursday, April 23rd, well over 100 people packed into a tiny warehouse art gallery called The Fridge, tucked in an alleyway near Capitol Hill. We came out for a night of somber folk, riotous country, and boot-stompin' Appalachian bluegrass, all played by trans women.

Beginning with a solo set of mostly covers from thisdogllhunt, AKA Bailey Payne, she brought her knowledge of country classics to us uneducated city slickers. She wore a Texas A&M football jersey – her hometown team and alma mater – but it had been lovingly modified, with the neckline cut out, a high crop, and sleeves nowhere to be seen. Transforming a symbol of Good Ol’ Boy culture into something just a little scandalous, maybe even a little sacrilegious, depending on which A&M fan you ask.

As Payne closed out with a blistering cover of Charlie Daniels’ “Trudy,” she was so deeply at ease with the audience. She joked her way through the cover, shouting out to the crowd between verses. As she led into the second verse, she took a moment to pause and ask in her best southern drawl, “Now who here can tell me who Johnny Lee Walker is?” She let the silence hang still in the air amongst a bewildered and entranced crowd, as she launched into the verse, finally telling us who this mystery man is. Nearing the end of “Trudy,” she took a moment to hop on the soapbox while still cycling through the chords. Addressing the crowd directly, she said, “A real transition goal was to play this song and feel free. And we aren’t all the way there yet, but we’re getting there.” She talked about how all these old country songs are just stories, elaborating, “I collect these stories, and I’m happy you’re part of my story.”

As she said this, I looked around the warehouse. I was surrounded by the friendly faces of trans people from across the District. We always show up for one another; we are all helping write each other’s stories.

Payne was followed by Rosslyn Station AKA Guinnivere Tully, who performed a slow and somber set of covers. Tully opted to take a seat on stage, drawing us in with intricate finger picking and delicate vocals. Her anti-folk came at the perfect time to give us all a breather following Payne’s high-energy country showcase and before what was sure to be an absolute barn burner of a set from Clover-Lynn. She is a dyke, an Appalachian folk musician, and a trans woman. And she would likely tell you it's in that order. She beams with a natural charisma, telling stories about family and acceptance with an accent so country you almost can’t believe it. Clover-Lynn’s music pulls from a deep tradition, discussing how one of her songs is meant for a traditional dance style called Appalachian flatfooting. Here in DC, we don’t know flatfooting, but we certainly know how to mosh. Trans people began running into each other, giving friendly shoves. There were even a few couples in the mix spinning each other around with the widest smiles on their faces. In this room, there was no shame and no judgment, just the joy of moving our bodies in ways that felt right. Maybe this is liberation.

April 24th – Day 1: In which Caroline meets her heroes, has a cheerleading squad, and thinks about God

On the first day of Liberation Weekend, I pretended I was a rock star. Along with my journalistic duties, I was also playing bass for the DC-based cow-punk act, thisdogllhunt. We were slotted to play second on the first day of the festival, right after Brooklyn-based punk act Eevie Echoes & the Locations.

Liberation Weekend gave me and a number of other small trans artists the opportunity to be part of the “big leagues.” With few exceptions (Laura Jane Grace, Ethel Cain, underscores), most trans musicians and artists exist on the DIY circuit, tracing paths from bars to basements to community centers along the endless highways of this country. Those spaces are home to me as a performer.

Before this show, we had largely played DIY venues, so loading into Black Cat, my bandmates and I felt a little out of our element. Real catering, access to a shower, and having to try our absolute hardest to be normal about sharing our green room with Laura Jane Grace. We sat quietly and kept mostly to ourselves, staking out a claim on a single couch, too nervous to eat any of the various charcuterie prepared for us.

With my stomach still churning and my nerves on edge, I found time in the early afternoon to sit down with Philly emo legends, Snowing. Born from the same scene that gave birth to acts like Algernon Cadwallader, Snowing had called it quits years ago, only recently reuniting to start playing shows again with the resurgence in popularity of fourth-wave emo. The four-piece was a hero to a younger Caroline as she first dipped her toe into emo and DIY music, and now here I was, sitting in a small green room with them, most of the band crammed onto a small love seat. This interview would not calm my nerves.

I began by asking the band why they wanted to play Liberation Weekend. Guitarist Willow Brazuk gave me an incredibly straightforward answer. “I mean, it's a pretty important cause to me personally as a trans woman.” She continued, “We need it [money] right now. It's a pretty desperate, scary situation in the United States.”

Unsurprisingly, as a band born from a scene known for its tight-knit nature, Snowing is deeply committed to playing fundraiser and benefit shows as a “fundamental part of punk ideology for your community.” Explaining, “The only way that we win is to live in community and care for small communities that work and spread it.”

Sitting with Snowing, it is apparent how much this band loves each other. Over the course of our interview, someone would break out in laughter at some point during nearly every question. Breaking through this laughter, Willow offered perhaps the most workable definition of liberation I would receive all weekend:

“To me, personally, I just want to live a normal-ass life. It doesn't need to be fancy. I don't need power. I would love to walk down the street and feel safe. I would love to be able to go to the bathroom in every state I go to. I would like to keep accessing my health care, whether it's transition-related or not. I would like to not be discriminated against in any area: employment, housing, et cetera. That's liberation. It's not a huge thing. It's just like… I want what everyone else has. It's not a lot to ask for. I think when people in marginalized groups ask for something, it feels like they're asking for the world. It's really just wanting what everyone else has. That's liberation to me.”

Liberation Weekend has the capacity to make that real, even if only for a weekend. Sometimes that can be enough, as Willow notes, “We're not going to stop legislation from being passed because we played a fucking show in DC I know that, but maybe some people could feel better because they got to go do this and be among people they like.”

”**I just want to live a normal-ass life**”

– Willow Brazuk, Snowing

This comes to the central challenge of Liberation Weekend: how does a music festival move us towards liberation, in whatever sense of the word that means? There are small actions, like bands that make sure people know where they stand. A seemingly small gesture offered by lead singer John Galm at every show is “If you are at a Snowing show, and something makes you uncomfortable, you can come and find one of us at the merch table, and we will figure it out, because everyone that comes through these doors needs to be safe.” I appreciate that it’s something concrete, and the passion with which John delivers this tells me that it’s something he believes with his whole heart.

As we began to wrap, Black Cat’s lovely audio engineer popped her head in, asking if we could sound check early. I lost my place a little bit. I’d been able to lose myself in Snowing’s love for one another and for music just enough to forget I actually had to get up on that stage. I told her five more minutes and proceeded to take ten to wrap up with Snowing.

Soundcheck was professional, yet eerie. Standing on stage, looking out at a venue as large as Black Cat and its empty floor with enough space for 800 people. It is a venue steeped in history, having hosted local heroes like Fugazi and The Dismemberment Plan, as well as national acts like Weezer and Foo Fighters. It all weighs down on you, straining your shoulders. Every pluck of a string, every step, requires you to focus just a little more. Act with a little more intentionality. Find composure within yourself.

We blazed through a song and a half, got the levels set, and suddenly found ourselves off stage just as quickly as we were whisked onto it. I now faced the prospect of sitting, waiting, and doing everything in my power to prevent my anxiety from growing like a festering algae bloom, sudden and suffocating.

A couple of hours after soundcheck, the doors opened, and I ventured into the crowd. A trickle of people slowly began to fill the cavernous space. I was finding peace in this moment when suddenly I heard a group of voices screaming “Caroline!!” and felt arms thrown around my shoulders.

Before a single note was played, the first person to speak at Liberation Weekend was Rayceen Pendarvis. Rayceen is an icon of the DC queer community, and was respected as such the whole weekend. She was the host for the Black Cat shows, appearing between sets, talking about the organizations, complimenting the crowd, and constantly discussing which cities she had made, or lost, a lot of money in. She was charming, sweet, and endlessly entertaining.

Pendarvis introduced the first act of the night, Eevie Echoes & the Locations, who delivered a raucous set, with frontwoman Eevie venturing into the crowd to make sure a mosh pit got going.

Before heading on, we stood side stage to do our goofy thisdogllhunt chant. “Hands in, and on three, thisdogllhunt! One! Two! Three! This-dog-llhunt!” The syllables don’t match the count. We’re never quite in sync, and the rhythm is never quite right. I hope it never changes; this is sisterhood to me.

Climbing the four steps up to the stage of Black Cat, it didn’t take long to feel at home. Despite gazing out at a crowd of at least a hundred, suddenly a chorus of voices erupted right at the front, chanting my name. Amongst that endless sea of faces, some of my closest friends made sure they were seen and heard by me. It was hard not to feel like an embarrassed high school graduate, just trying to make her way across the stage while her family makes absolute fools of themselves, but having a personal section of trans girl cheerleaders can calm even the shakiest of nerves. I could tell you all about the set, but why do that when you can just watch the whole thing right here:

After our set, as I navigated my way down the stairs side stage, the first person to notice my frazzled state was Augusta Koch, the lead singer of Gladie, who had been watching just off stage. She looked me in the eyes and, with a calm, collected voice, simply asked, “How are you feeling?” I was forced to take in my surroundings and live in the moment.

At that point, I didn’t have words to describe the feeling. I do now. Fulfilled. Fulfilled by my community, by music, by trans love. This moment grounded me. I needed all of these little grounding moments – the type of moments that can only come from a community that is tight-knit and allied both locally and afar. I believe this is one facet of liberation: to have confidence in your community and their support.

It also hit me that we were just the second set of the entire festival. I’d better find my grounding ASAP because there was a whole lot of festival left to go.

After catching my breath in the green room, I popped out to catch the tail end of Spring Silver. K Nkanza’s indie emo project has been a mainstay of the DMV scene for years, and sounded right at home on Black Cat’s stage.

The rest of the evening would be out-of-towners, with Gladie taking the stage. As the Philly-based indie rockers launched into their set with “Push Me Down,” I traced a path through the crowd like a snake in the prairie grass to make my way to the front of the stage and scream along. Gladie offers a unique brand of indie rock, with guitars swirling and unraveling behind Koch’s wonderfully sweet and gravely voice. Everything is just a little fuzzed-out, but still catchy and thoughtfully laden with a deeper meaning. After first helping me find grounding, Augusta helped me fall into the music, carried away and out of my body.

Shortly after Gladie was Snowing, who repeated many of the same beliefs they had shared with me during our interview. Lead singer John Galm explicitly asked audience members to find him if anything makes them feel uncomfortable. The set, of course, was excellent, as if you had any doubts in their abilities. I was transported back to the first time I saw them in the dust bowl that was the Second Annual DIY Superbowl in 2022. Eighteen years in, absolutely no one in Snowing has lost their edge, still able to get a crowd screaming their lungs out about drinking too much as a 20-something in Philly. Nothing is more cathartic than a good Midwest emo set.

Nearing the end of their set, I ran into an old friend, a former partner who had seen me go from man to woman. We embraced. We were brought together by emo music nearly seven years ago, making the trek up to Philly together to see Snowing in 2022. After hugs and pleasantries, we briefly caught up before settling in together to watch the final set of the night, Laura Jane Grace.

Laura and her band delivered a rapid-fire set of hits, hits, and, dare I say it, more hits. The setlist spanned both her solo catalog and the Against Me! discography. As she ascended to the stage, the entirety of Black Cat came to life. Myself and many trans punks of my generation and a little older owe a great deal to Mrs. Jane Grace and her music. So many of us felt a strange attraction to her music for years before any of us had the realization or the confidence to live as ourselves. From my vantage point about halfway back in the venue, I could see a wave of hands rising up in front of the stage, bodies moving in tides, waves of people crashing into the stage as choruses of voices rose up, nearly drowning out Laura at times. Her set, and the night, fittingly closed on “True Trans Soul Rebel.” When she asks, “Does God bless your transsexual heart?” I don’t need to know the answer, because I am already blessed by my community. Blessed by the love I have for trans people and the love they have for me. Perhaps that is liberation: being blessed by one another.

April 25th – Day 2: In which Caroline aids the downfall of capitalism, rediscovers her inner child, and guesses which band member has hemorrhoids

Day 2 got off to a rough start. The night prior, my car got snowed in at the venue. (Snowing’s van was blocking us from leaving). My head did not hit my pillow until around 2 AM, two and a half hours later than I usually like it to. I was also still riding the high of the previous night.

Upon waking up, I managed to race over to Transmission, where I met up with Max Narotzky from Ultra Deluxe in the alley behind the club to chat. She was sporting a cheery and busy dress covered in smiling tomatoes, waving ladybugs, and a lovely orange ruffle flowing along the shoulders. Her face was adorned with a bushy red beard and a blazing mess of curling hair atop her head. Despite being the frontperson of Ultra Deluxe, Narotzky is, in some DIY circles, known just as much for her posting around leftist organizing as she is for her music. Max is a self-avowed communist and Marxist-Leninist who believes liberation will be achieved through the organization of the working class and the eventual overthrow of capitalism. Her politics are radical but straightforward, and it’s refreshing to hear that.

For an event titled so boldly as “Liberation Weekend,” it takes a radical to truly articulate liberation and how to get there. At one point, Max prompts me, “What's affecting trans people the most? Access to medicine, that's a capitalist problem. That's not just for trans people, it's for everyone who is working class, because our medicine costs money. Housing costs money. I mean, we know homelessness rates in trans people are much higher than in cis people, right? So how do we help trans people? We have to destroy capitalism.”

Lofty goals certainly, but incredibly clear. Max sees the utility of events like Liberation Weekend for getting us there as the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down, “It's like kind of tricking people to go because obviously going to a punk show is more fun than going to a fucking communist meeting. I mean, even most communists would agree with that.”

While I appreciated the matter-of-factness of Willow’s answer the day before, Max is precise and consistent in recognizing capitalism as the thing that holds us back from liberation. “Liberation means the things that are coercing us into work or coercing us into cis heteronormativity, those need to be abolished. Abolition of private property, the abolition of capitalism and imperialism.”

As Day 2 went on, I came to appreciate Max’s radicalism more and more. Between sets, organizers from different groups would come on stage and share platitudes about the importance of voting and how our existence itself is resistance. That being here is in itself radical. I can appreciate the feel-good nature of this, but I think about what Max said, “music is important. But liberation is not going to be done through vibes alone.” Her words resonated with me throughout the rest of this weekend as I looked for the individuals and the movements that went beyond just asking for Instagram followers. A striking example was watching members of the DC Democratic Socialists of America Bodily Autonomy Working Group walking up to members of the audience and giving them Narcan, intent on getting as many people as possible to begin carrying the potentially life-saving drug.

The second day of Liberation Weekend began with my friends in Somebody’s Daughter, who are rising alt-punk stars in the DC scene. Up next was Ok Cuddle, fronted by Nicole Harwayne, who was at Liberation Weekend last year as a member of Pop Music Fever Dream. I don’t think anyone this weekend was having more fun on stage than her as she orchestrated a wall of death and told the crowd, “Transmission, it is 2 PM, I want to see some goddamn blood in this building!” DC riot grrrl rockers RenRiot took the stage next, where they embodied the spirit of Rage Against The Machine if they were black queer 20-somethings instead of middle-aged white guys.

*“Music is important, but liberation is not going to be done through vibes alone.”*

– Max Narotzky, Ultra Deluxe

As Ultra Deluxe took the stage, I was curious how Max’s beliefs would translate to the stage. Turns out the answer was, simply put, by providing the most batshit concert experience I have ever seen. I am no stranger to inflatables being tossed into the crowd (see literally any DRAIN show), but there is a certain whimsy when those inflatables are brightly colored inflatable hammers, letting you feel like Mario running through the pit, whacking one another on the head. But then, during “Manufacturing Medicine,” she got the parachute out, as in one of those parachutes you’d use during elementary gym class. Most of us found an edge to grab and started rhythmically waving it up and down in time with the pounding bass. While the parachute pulsed up and down, Max unveiled her greatest weapon, a giant bubble gun, which rained whimsy down on to the crowd.

Truly, nothing is more freeing, more liberating, than a mosh pit underneath a parachute while hitting each other with blow-up hammers. Suddenly, I was seven years old all over again. I had insisted I was too tired to mosh, but none of this mattered; how could it? She offered all of us the chance to let go of our current world and just be kids again. I couldn’t turn her down.

Following the batshit fun of Ultra Deluxe, Local DC indie rockers Cryptid Summer took the stage, and their lead singer, L Mazer, had the most striking look I’d seen all weekend. She had painted three eyes on each cheekbone, creating perhaps the most ominous vibe of any act in the lineup.

Headlining Transmission that afternoon was none other than NYC dance-punk darlings Crush Fund. Late last year, I had them on my radio show; check out that interview here. The Crush Fund girls are gearing up for the release of their first LP, and they are sounding as incredible as ever. Their sound is massive and abrasive. At any moment during their set, it felt like the roof was about to be blown clear off Transmission. Instead, I witnessed them make this little room feel claustrophobic as ever, bodies crashing into each other, climbing on top of one another as the band ripped through their set. Especially of note was a three-song run of “Shooting 2,” “FFS,” and “Shooting 1,” the first and last of which are as yet unreleased. Crush Fund shows off their hardcore chops on those tracks, delivering absolutely punishing vocals over instrumentals that are not dissimilar to someone taking a real (not inflatable) hammer and repeatedly (yet rhythmically) beating you into a semiconscious state. Even as their set slowed for a moment at the end with their unreleased track “Go,” people still managed to mosh. I watched a pit form where two trans girls pirouetted into a crowd functioning like human pinball bumpers, sending them careening back and forth across the venue.

I was starting to crash as I arrived at Black Cat for the evening shows. But within me, the journalistic flame burned bright, giving me just enough energy to survive this night. As I prepared for the evening shows, I found myself thinking about those around me and what their Liberation looked like. I have stories of two people that I’d love to share. The first is a trans woman named Tommi Parashos. She flew in from San Diego to be a part of this weekend. Over the course of the festival, she became the talk of the town for her attempt to get every artist to sign the instructions for her estrogen injections. Tommi told me that it “started as an idea for a cool keepsake, but it’s also a fun way for me to interact with the bands and force myself to be social and make friends.

She continued saying, “Liberation Weekend was the first time I felt like a girl. Before Liberation Weekend, I literally didn’t think that I was pretty enough or confident enough to call myself a doll; I guess dysphoria does that to you. Being surrounded by a festival’s worth of wonderful trans people all complementing me and wanting to be my friend made me feel like, yeah, I can call myself a doll. It was so liberating being in a space where I didn't need to flag the fact that I was trans or do the cotton candy barf look to be seen as a woman. Initially, I came out to Liberation Weekend to have a fun trip with my friend, who’s also a big fan of the DC scene, but I left wanting to build a trans community back home in San Diego.”

The other is a trans woman named Lizzie Rose from Fayetteville, Arkansas, who made her way up to DC for the festival. For her, Liberation Weekend was a rare opportunity to be surrounded by other trans people. She told me how “growing up queer in the south, you spend your life trying to prove you belong, prove that your existence has worth. I’ve always struggled when creating music because of this, because I felt the need to prove my worth as a person through art. But at Liberation Weekend, watching people who were just like me perform songs about experiences just like mine, surrounded by people who celebrated and cherished me for existing, I realized that my music didn’t have to do that. Anything I create matters because it is an extension of my life, a life that, despite the pain and anguish I’ve experienced, is beautiful.” In the weeks since Liberation Weekend, she told me she has started writing music and rededicated herself to learning both the guitar and drums.

Kicking things off for the evening session back at Black Cat was Adult Human Females. Their track “Tuck Tuck Goose” has the most sardonic approach to the realities of trans life in this country, with the line “Hiding in the bathroom / Creeping on the playground / It’s a drive-by grooming.” Sometimes we need to laugh through the oppression.

The standout set of Day 2 belonged to Brooklyn’s MX LONELY. Admittedly, this was mostly due to lead singer Rae Haas and their tendency to jump on top of large objects. What can I say? I’m a sucker for someone looking big and giant on stage. While performing “Big Hips,” they ascended to the top of their amp again as every member of this very Brooklyn-looking band would headbang in unison, long hair and mustaches flying everywhere, kind of like a Gen Z version of whatever the hell they were doing in that one Attack Attack! music video.

Following them was the Pacific Northwest dark and ethereal metal duo Ragana. They were loud and all-encompassing, which is deeply impressive to accomplish with just a guitar and drums. New York post-punkers Bambara took the stage after, providing some of the most oddly danceable post-punk I’ve heard in quite a while. Pissed Jeans followed, fronted by Matt Korvette, who was one of the most energetic frontmen I had ever seen. He began the set dressed in a too-big black long-sleeve that I suspect he wore just to flail the sleeves around wildly. Eventually, he’d lose the shirt as he careened back and forth across the stage. In one of the few moments of calm during a tuning break, he treated us to perhaps the most bizarre stage banter I’ve ever heard as Korvette began pointing at his fellow band members, asking us to guess which two had hemorrhoids. I don’t know if this is liberation, but it was funny as hell.

Closing out the evening was a solo performance by Devi McCallion, who commanded the space, using the entire room as her stage. McCallion stepped directly off the stage of Black Cat and into the crowd, imploring audience members to circle close around her. She began her set saying, “This song is dedicated to Charlie Kirk.” It was sadly not a cover of “We Are Charlie Kirk.”

April 26th – Day 3: In which Caroline learns about the South, wishes she could dodge parking tickets, and takes flight

I rolled up on my bike outside a small Ethiopian coffee shop just in time to catch Peach Rings as they were headed in to meet me. They hail from North Carolina, and I mean this in the nicest way possible… what a North-Carolina-ass-looking band. We’re talking Realtree hats, long, ratty punk hair, a rugged coolness to every single one of them. And here they are, talking to Caroline, the city slicker, in her Sydney Sweeney x Ford x Dickies collab khakis (listen, my friend gave them to me for free, and they look great). Despite this, they still think I’m cool, and lead singer Ramona Barton agrees to an interview on the back patio of the coffee shop. Peach Rings got started by making emo music about being trans. At least that’s what Ramona did back when this was a solo project by a 19-year-old girl. “With a song like ‘dream girl,’ which we're playing tonight, I wrote that at a time when I wanted nothing more than to not be trans. I've 180'd on that, but we still play it because I think it's a beautiful song and it captures a feeling. That was me at one point. It feels special to touch on that, and it also resonates with a lot of people who might be in that part of transition.”

Peach Rings, like Snowing, is yet another artist whose music has shaped my life in some small way. Her music helped me discover my own gender identity, with songs like “i'm going to be a girl for halloween” serving as a safe outlet for my confusing feelings about gender in college. Her music was liberating to me, and she is aware of how important it has been to people. She describes how “being a teenager and hearing a song that speaks to you is extremely important. We're not, like, a super successful band by any means, but having moms come to shows and say, ‘My 13-year-old daughter just came out, and your music means so much to her’ is extremely touching. It just makes me cry. To me, that is liberatory for someone younger than me.” Maybe liberation is loving yourself.

For Ramona, someone who is about six years into transition, liberation is “to just be able to live freely without bigotry around us. I shouldn't have to worry about going to the bathroom.” As harsher and harsher anti-trans laws are passed around the country (see Idaho’s bathroom ban law, which could result in life sentences for violators), trans people have simple requests. “We're just trying to hang out and exist, and they want us eradicated.”

Many of these laws are being passed in Southern and red states, but despite this Ramona is “very proud of being from the South and being a southerner,” explaining, “I think that there are obviously difficulties, and there are a lot of prejudiced people, but I also have had experiences back home with old conservative religious people who treat me as more of a woman than people in, say, New York have… All of our friends back home are trans people. There are lots of trans people in the South, and I think that is just overlooked because it's a red state.”

I appreciate having the influence and perspective of trans people outside of the Washington-Philly-New York core that largely makes up this festival. Especially after learning that Peach Rings just today released some new music with banjo on it, which this author welcomes with open arms. Peach Rings isn’t even the only southern trans band here, as they brought their friends in Motocrossed, who also hail from North Carolina. While this lineup is over-representative of Philly, NYC, and DC, trans musicians being able to thrive and create in places outside the traditional blue cities points towards a potential of what liberation could look like for trans people. A reality where, from the biggest metropolis to the smallest hamlets, there are thriving communities of trans and queer artists and musicians able to live in peace.

I was only able to catch a couple of sets at Transmission before needing to depart for my interview with Pool Kids, but this sampling did not disappoint. First was DC emogaze act Emotional World, whose delicately layered sound was enough to warm the frozen heart of this staunch shoegaze skeptic.

DC punk band Soul Meets Body were outstanding, delivering a ripping set of grungey punky tracks. Frontwoman Genevieve Moore controlled the stage as well as anyone at Black Cat or Transmission all weekend long with an undeniable swagger. They closed with “No Youth No Future,” suddenly turning into a seasoned hardcore band, making me dearly wish I had the energy to crowdkill my fellow dolls.

I don’t want to forget about the acts that closed things out at Transmission, Motocrossed, Latchkey Kids, Jade Weapon, and Peach Rings. Though I know every single one of those bands can, and did, put on an amazing show while I raced back over to Black Cat.

Hailing from Tallahassee, Florida, Pool Kids have been rising stars in the emo scene ever since releasing their cult classic debut, Music to Practice Safe Sex to. Their self-titled sophomore record began to add a more refined touch, cleaning up the rough edges of the first record and rounding out the two-piece into a full four-person setup. With the recent release of their third LP, Easier Said Than Done, Pool Kids has been leaning further into the poppy songwriting that we only heard glimpses of on their second album. Lead singer and guitarist Christine Goodwyne told me that “we sort of just keep trying to sound like Pool Kids without repeating ourselves.”

As their sound has changed, their philosophy has not, as bassist Nicolette Alvarez highlights how it’s “important to show up to things and be there as allies. Now more than ever, it's important to stand up and loudly and proudly say that we're here. We stand with trans people.” Christine shares how “If you don't clarify where you stand on that stuff, people who you don't agree with might be thinking that you actually are on their side.” Later that evening, when Pool Kids played, guitarist Andy Anaya would drape Christine in a trans pride flag, much to the delight of a raucous, almost out of breath crowd. I think it's clear where they stand.

Throughout the weekend, Pool Kids were the only band I interviewed, and one of the few bands on the entire bill, without an openly transgender member. Despite this, they still have a compelling vision of what liberation could look like. Drummer Caden Clinton provided the perfect white guy perspective on this. “Everybody gets to live the same life that I do. I'm a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, cis male. I will never get a speeding ticket, but it's not fair that all my other friends have to struggle with that.” Pool Kids are a perfect example of what allyship actually looks like.

I was lucky enough to catch Nicole Maroulis from Hit Like A Girl immediately after talking to Pool Kids. Much like me, Nicole was also pulling double duty at this weekend’s festival. Outside of their frontperson duties singing and playing guitar in Hit Like A Girl, Nicole is also executive director and one of the co-founders of No More Dysphoria – one of the two main beneficiaries of Liberation Weekend, along with Gender Liberation Movement.

When asked how they describe the organization, Maroulis explains that No More Dysphoria is ”a punk rock, mutual aid effort, where we essentially just directly give financial resources, aid, or assistance to people in the transgender, gender nonconforming communities.”

As I ushered them into the spare green room, grateful I could fit a quick chat in their busy schedule, I noticed that Nicole has the DIY punk look down to a T: an oversized septum piercing, tattoos spilling out of a long-sleeve flannel, and a mullet with the bangs dyed a bleach blonde. Nicole is DIY through and through, and the ethos of being a DIY musician has bled into their work at No More Dysphoria. “So the way a band normally starts is like you get a little group of friends. You write some songs. You make some T-shirts. You play some basement shows. The organization started kind of similarly with a group of friends. We made some T-shirts and sold them at my friend's basement shows in New Brunswick.”

After starting Hit Like a Girl, Nicole was able to “bring a mutual aid effort with us on tour in all these different cities and all these different communities, getting the word out there.”

This work can genuinely be life-saving, helping trans people secure housing, medication, and necessary medical care that they otherwise couldn’t get. I wanted to hear from Nicole exactly why this work matters, and they explained, “It is important to give money to trans people because we are so fucking at a disadvantage. The moment we were born, we were ahead of goddamn disadvantage because, unfortunately, everyone is actively working their hardest to fucking erase us and dismember our existence.” As they answered, I visibly saw them building with rage at the system. Nicole is a rare breed, someone who so genuinely, with every fiber of their body, wants to help their community, wants to give and help build a cycle that will support everyone. “Helping people is like such a crazy, radical idea, right? Because it's not directly servicing yourself or being selfish. I think that's like what a lot of society wants us to think you're supposed to do. ‘Just be selfish and only worry about yourself.’ But like that's just not at all how the world works, you know? I think of mutual aid as kind of like a cycle, so you need to give in order to get.”

”**I think of mutual aid as kind of like a cycle, so you need to give in order to get”**

– Nicole Maroulis, Hit Like A Girl

The way Nicole sees it, Liberation Weekend is helping provide money directly to this mutual aid cycle and also “creates a safe space for queer people to gather and to have this common ground. You're in a room with like-minded people, and you can relax your shoulders a little bit. That is such a small thing that a lot of cis people don't really think about. That is huge because you know you're gonna go to work tomorrow and probably get misgendered the next day. At least tonight I can be myself and, you know, the people around me are gonna respect me, and I know it.”

No More Dysphoria has become essential to who Nicole is, as they described how “mutual aid is really important to me because I really love helping people. It's a privilege that I have the resources and the capability to help people. It's important to me that, if you can, you should.”

Along with Max, there was no one else I wanted to hear more from about the actions we can take to help move us towards Liberation. Nicole shared that, “I think a good step that people can take, whether you're a musician or not, is just to keep the conversation going. How many bands in the middle of their set say 'fuck ICE' and 'free Palestine'? I hope a lot of them. The importance of it is that we bring it up and keep it fresh in our minds. There are probably going to be kids who are going to get inspired to go to protests because they watched you play and heard you speak. Those are kids that are going to go tell their conservative parents to fuck off because they were inspired by whatever you said to them.”

After wrapping up with Nicole, I made my way into the audience to catch the first act of the night, Pinky Lemon. Hailing from DC and Philly, they have long been stalwarts of the scene. Every chance I get to see them is a treat, and this occasion was no different.

One set later, Hit Like A Girl took the stage, and Nicole spoke with more passion and care than anyone else I met this weekend. It came out in their set, and it came out through the way they so fiercely advocated for the work No More Dysphoria is doing. They invited Miri Tyler and Mel Bleker from Pretty Bitter on stage to join the band for “Are You In Love.” Their set wrapped with “Dismay” from their hardcore EP Becoming, marking the second time today a group suddenly became a hardcore band right before my eyes. Nicole threw themselves into the crowd as the crowdkilling switch in my head was suddenly flipped. Before I knew it, my arms and limbs were flying around me in a whirlwind with no care for who may be near me. Maybe this is liberation.

Pretty Bitter took the stage shortly after Hit Like a Girl for what promised to be a triumphal performance. As was shared by one of the front people, Miri, in an interview shortly after, “this is our last DC show for a little bit. We are moving to Chicago in early July. And it is really, really powerful how much love and energy exists in the city and exists in this very, very special scene.”

The energy in the crowd made it apparent that Pretty Bitter are truly hometown heroes, and heroes to trans people across the entire East Coast. During their final song, “The Damn Thing Is Cursed,” I found myself next to July Brown from Crush Fund, screaming the words at each other. Mel and Miri simply radiate energy from the stage, while guitarist Kira Campbell and drummer Jason Hayes are two of the most effortlessly cool and talented people I have ever seen. Pretty Bitter exuded confidence, but they were feeling much more than just confidence. As Mel shared, “I started the set in tears. By the end of it, I was feeling so much love and joy that it was still tears, but it wasn't sad tears.”

Punctuating the set was a moment at the end of “The Damn Thing is Cursed” when Mel announced a special guest was coming on stage. I saw peering out of the corner of my eye, none other than Bailey “thisdogllhunt” Payne. On bringing up Bailey, Mel shared, “If there is anyone that we could pass the proverbial torch to, it is this woman. We got to meet her through the scene. We snuck her into a show we were playing in Baltimore because she wanted to take photos and didn't have a ticket, so we snuck her in the back of a church, and then we just became best friends. She became one of the most important people in my life, but also she is so infinitely important to this city and to the scene, so when we were talking about who to bring up, it was no question.”

As Mel announced their special guest, Bailey stormed onto the stage, wrapping Mel in the warmest of embraces before Mel leaped into the crowd to finish singing the final chorus, Bailey dancing around, eventually welcoming Mel back with a warm embrace, both in tears. I always tell people that DC's scene is tight-knit, that we always love each other and show up for one another. I don’t think there is clearer evidence than this.

I asked Miri what the DC scene can do for bands, and she shared, “I think that this scene lifts up its members and shares resources. All the things we are able to do, it's all because bands were nice to us when we first started out, and bands gave us invaluable information about how to do this thing.”

No set during the weekend felt more “liberatory” to me than the firestorm that Pretty Bitter unleashed that Sunday night. The pure love displayed on stage made me truly proud to be a Washingtonian, to be a musician, and to be a trans woman. They also used their time to share genuinely radical positions on liberation, proclaiming, “Material aid makes our lives better. It lets us be safe. Talk about trans people in rooms that trans people aren’t in. Money doesn’t fix everything, but it does fix a lot of things.”

After their set, Mel and Miri would share with me that they have “been in situations where we have used No More Dysphoria to make sure that we did not lose our housing.” It can be sobering remembering how many of us are constantly living on the razor’s edge. We are often in unsafe situations financially, physically, and emotionally. It’s why Mel believes liberation is “Safety. Trans liberation means that all of my friends, all of my family, are safe, supported, and not in distress.” Miri added, “It's the safety to just exist as who you are and not having to explain yourself and not having to feel like you're going to be ridiculed for it on the street, in any public space, or even private space. All those things are the groundwork for happiness.”

Echoing sentiments shared by Max on Saturday, Miri continued, adding, “trans liberation doesn't happen without black liberation. It doesn't happen without Palestinian liberation. It doesn't happen without the liberation of all working-class people. It's all tied in because the fascists only want one thing, and that's all of us dead.”

To get to this liberation, Mel believes that if “you bring people into a room, I think that you associate liberation with freedom and with happiness, and you act like you're already there because here you are. It's a good way to collectively imagine the world that we could all share together in the future. Miri added, “In a much more sort of material way, it introduces people to organizations and mutual aid funds and efforts that are happening in their community that they might not have known about.”

“Trans liberation doesn't happen without black liberation. It doesn't happen without Palestinian liberation. It doesn't happen without the liberation of all working-class people”

– Miri Tyler

With this being their final hometown show for the foreseeable future, I wanted to know if these hometown heroes have any lessons to leave for the scene. “Be excellent to each other.” Perfectly put, Mel. “If you have a chance to share and lift someone else up, you should take every single opportunity that you have, because you might meet some of your best friends by doing that.”

As for Miri’s lesson, “I think the thing that makes this scene so cool is that a lot of these bands in this city don't feel like we're in competition with each other – we're in collaboration with each other. I think just keep that in mind, don't feel like you have to compete, you know? Just be collaborative.”

Following Pretty Bitter was the brilliant Pom Pom Squad, who vacillated between sweet bubble-punk and delicate ballads. One moment, front woman Mia Berrin would be dancing with cheerleader pom poms, and the next be on her knees, screaming to the heavens.

Ezra Furman took the stage next, and while I sadly missed most of the set while talking to Miri and Mel, what I caught was excellent. Her soft touch transforms the pain of transness into something romantic and grandiose. She closed with the song “Book of Our Names,” which she has described as a protest song against an empire that wants us dead. It is triumphant and defiant, calling for trans people to be known and remembered by our chosen names. She demonstrates that power and righteousness don’t necessarily have to be accompanied by overdriven guitars and pounding drums.

Finally, it was time for Pool Kids with the last set of the night. They closed out the festival with “Conscious Uncoupling,” the raucous opener from their 2022 self-titled. I started cutting through the crowd, a speeding car weaving through traffic as I made my way to the front of the stage. I locked eyes with Mel from Pretty Bitter as we screamed the lyrics with each other. The signs at Black Cat might have said no stage diving or crowd surfing, but I had no interest in listening to this sign during the final song of the festival. Neither Mel nor Nicole had respected it, so why should I? So I swung my leg up onto the stage, launching myself first up, then out into the awaiting crowd.

I was floating. Screaming my head off, held aloft by my trans brothers and sisters. An eternity passed. By the time I finally hit the ground, my legs were vibrating, adrenaline coursing through my veins, my heart a redlining engine. I felt invincible. I believe I was. If that wasn’t liberation, I don’t know what is.

Caroline Liaupsin is a DC area radio host and musician. She’s live every other Tuesday from 2–4 PM EST on WOWD-LP bringing you the hottest new DIY tracks, interviews with artists, show previews, and features on the world of DIY in DC and beyond. When she’s not too busy she writes biweekly DIY show previews and other things on her substack. She also plays bass for a trans cowpunk band called thisdogllhunt.

April 27, 2026

Quippy in Queens: An Interview with Nick Zander of Equipment

April 27, 2026/ Taylor Grimes

When Samuel and I show up at Two Worlds Recording Studio in Queens, New York, we happen to be approaching the front door right as studio owner Billy Mannino and Equipment frontman Nick Zander are stepping out to the street. The two of them were making a quick run to the market across the street for some toiletries, and the two of us were happy to tag along to get a further taste of the Whitestone neighborhood. This funny timing is the latest in a long series of serendipities that had to fall into place for this interview to happen. On my end, I happened to be in New York at the same time as the group, photographer Samuel Leon happened to be available to snap some pics, and the band was kind enough to let the two of us into the studio as they were putting together their forthcoming third LP.

We joined the pair as they selected items from the store’s rear wall, where illuminated cooler shelves had been repurposed to house a wide array of cleaning supplies and laundry detergents. We shot the shit as they checked out and returned to Two Worlds, which sits at the end of a long, liminal hallway of similar studio spaces.

If it wasn’t clear immediately upon entering, Two Worlds Studio is hallowed emo ground. Framed on the wall are vinyl LPs from local legends like Oso Oso and Macseal, as well as more recent additions to the Emo Canon like String Theory by TRSH and That’s What Friends Are For, the three-way split from saturdays at your place, Summerbruise, and SHOPLIFTER. On nearby shelves sit more yet-to-be-framed recent releases from Kerosene Heights and red sun. Equipment are already among these ranks; over the last couple of years, they recorded their two Drink Singles “tequila redbull” and “espresso lemonade” with Mannino, as well as last year’s surprise EP First time using slang.

Under the watchful eye of a crocheted Mr. Met figurine and surrounded by cases of Yerba Mate cans, I picked Nick’s brain about Equipment’s mindset going into this new record, how the last few years have treated them, and what it’s like scaling their touring operation from DIY spaces to larger rooms.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

SWIM: First off, thanks for having us in the studio. I’ve loved the Drink Singles and First time using slang. It seems like the response to those has been great. Has dropping those smaller one-offs helped shape this new album in any way?

NICK: I would say those are the two extremes. There’s poppy Equipment, I would say “tequila redbull” and “espresso lemonade” is that, and then it got pretty weird on our last EP. I think some people were like, ‘I don’t know about this version of Equipment,’ and I’m okay with that because I don’t think it’s representative of the band as a whole. All the pieces of Equipment’s past are gonna be in the next record. I do think it is the weirdest one so far, but hopefully should flow the best.

SWIM: That’s awesome. I was curious if there were any genres that you’re hoping people start ascribing to the band with this new LP, or any new sounds that y’all are trying to pull through a little bit more? I mean, I don’t even think it’s fair to say Equipment has been “full emo” for the last few years. There’s pop-punk and indie stuff, but is there anything that you guys are consciously trying to pull in that feels new genre-wise or influence-wise?

BILLY: There’s so little emo on this record.

SWIM: I would say, as an arc, that you guys have been pointed that way for a while.

BILLY: Equipment is an indie rock band.

NICK: Yeah. I think it goes quite a few places on this album that are like… I dunno about “more emotional,” but the thing is, most music genres have emotion in them. If someone were to look up ‘Midwest emo playlist,’ I think there’s like one, maybe two songs on this record that would fit, and even then, it’d be fake emo.

SWIM: As coined by Summerbruise. Yeah. No, that’s great.

NICK: I’m trying to think of what songs they would even be. There are a few tap riffs here and there, but mainly, we were like, ‘How do we make guitars sound cool and have it be catchy?’ How do we trick people into thinking something is catchy when it’s written like brain vomit?

This is maybe the worst news to certain people, but more like 2000s Indie. There’s even a song that’s like MGMT vibes a little bit, which is kind of crazy. There is more synth on this record, but it’s not like delving into actual pop music necessarily; it’s more like we’re trying to keep that catchy side that people who like Equipment like.

SWIM: Who’s playing synth?

NICK: We haven’t laid down any yet. There’s a scratch in there, but it’ll just be me on the record. We don’t know what we’re gonna do in concert yet.

SWIM: Okay. That’s exciting.

NICK: Penny [Guarantee] is flying in on Friday, and we’ll be back-and-forth doing guitars. There aren’t defined lead or rhythm parts. It’s just like, ‘Penny, do you wanna do this part?’ or Penny will be like, ‘Nick, I don’t want to record this part, but here’s my idea.’ We’re sort of just like a committee of guitar.

SWIM: I feel like even live, y’all trade off pretty well. I think the last time I saw Equipment (other than the Swarmyard acoustic set) was at Fauxchella, and you were both locked in. It was a lot of fun to see the guitar trade-off, and Penny adds so much to the shredding and stage presence. I think that’s cool that comes through on the record too.

NICK: Yeah, and live who’s to say who’s actually gonna play what? There are many parts I recorded that Penny now plays and vice versa. Penny actually played bass on Alt. Account, ‘cause they were still the bassist at the time, but everything since “tequila redbull” has been full-band.

Jake [Pachasa] is our drummer, who already recorded drums in July. He’s running sound for Mat Kerekes’ band right now on tour, so he’s doing his thing. It’s just a super busy time because we’re doing this record, Jake’s on tour, then we’re going on tour with Wonder Years, and then right after that we’re touring with Dear Maryanne. Then, after I get back from that tour, we are moving from Denver to Cleveland.

SWIM: That’s awesome. Good for y’all.

NICK: A lot of shit going on. Not a lot of money coming in at the moment, but that’s okay.

SWIM: Well, hopefully tour swings things back a little. Maybe the new album will help, but yeah, a lot of logistics and moving parts. That’s very cool, though.

SWIM: What was on your mind most going into this record? I’m thinking about Alt. Account, and I feel like that was such a concerted effort to do “a record” in contrast to Ruthless Sun, so what would you say is the biggest thing that you’re keeping in your head?

NICK: I think we wanted to wait until we had enough energy to not half-ass it. I feel the same way about how the album is presented after it’s recorded, too. I think that is equally important to recording it and writing. I think a lot of what made Alt. Account special was our relationship with our listeners at that point, the album art, the singles we picked, the music videos, the whole concept.

SWIM: Yeah. Very intentional.

NICK: I think I was getting lost in the noise a little bit. I was thinking about what people might want or what might get us more listeners, and I’m glad I haven’t really compromised any of that. Instead of scratching Equipment and moving on to, not a different band necessarily, but like a different version of Equipment, I’ve just decided that we should take what we already have and let our weaknesses be our strengths, you know? Like people saying, “this isn’t emo!” Now I’m just sort of saying I don’t care anymore.

You know, we’re in the emo scene, but I don’t feel like I need to be whinier in the songs. I don’t feel like I need to get better at guitar tapping; everyone’s already really good at guitar tapping. I feel like people like Equipment because of the lyrics and the choruses and the chemistry in the band and the spirit. I don’t think we need to conform; if anything, we should just keep going, and if it doesn’t work, then I guess it just doesn’t work, you know?

SWIM: Yeah. I love that.

NICK: But you know, it’s a risk.

SWIM: Yeah, I’m picking up what you’re putting down. That’s cool.

SWIM: Billy, I guess you'd better close your ears for this one. I view Equipment very much as existing on a spectrum. I have a playlist of y’all’s songs that remind me of Death Cab for one reason or another, including those covers, and, to me, there’s a spectrum for this band with blink-182 on one side and Death Cab on the other.

If you got the chance to do the next record or next EP or a one-off single with Chris Walla or someone from blink’s camp, who would you pick?

NICK: Definitely not fucking Travis Barker. Are you kidding me?

SWIM: [Laughs] You could do Mark Hoppus if you want, he does some production stuff.

NICK: He did produce Motion City soundtrack…

SWIM: Yeah. So that’s kind of up Quippy’s alley.

NICK: I don’t think either of them really know anything anymore. Which is okay, they did what they needed to do.

SWIM: But if they reached out and were like, ‘I love your stuff. I wanna record something’ you’d just stick to what you’re doing, which is cool.

NICK: Well, that’s really tough, ‘cause obviously the dollar signs are working with blink-182.

SWIM: Yeah, yeah. You could be opening for MGK next tour, for all you know…

NICK: [Laughs] Ugh, true. I think MGK has more money than Ratboys, I would argue, so if I wanted more money… That’s tough, but actually it’s not really.

SWIM: Well, it sounds like your answer would be neither, so that’s totally fair.

NICK: No, I would work with Chris Walla for sure.

BILLY: I bring that up more than anybody that you should bring Chris Walla into the studio.

NICK: Yeah, Billy wants a collab.

SWIM: Get him in here!

BILLY: I wanna do an Equipment co-production with Chris Walla so bad.

SWIM: I think that would rock.

NICK: That’s the one thing that would bring Billy to Seattle for five months.

BILLY: No, I won’t.

NICK: Just kidding. I dunno if that would get him off the East Coast. And bring Chris from, uh, Norway.

No, I don’t think I would really like… Okay. Don’t– Travis Barker’s gonna see this now. Let me rephrase my answer… I think for our future music, I see Chris Walla as a more appropriate option.

SWIM: [Laughs] Okay. That’s a very, uh, political answer.

NICK: [Laughs] That’s gonna be the most boring answer.

SWIM: I swear I’m not doing this to make you look bad; this isn’t Gotcha DIY journalism.

NICK: It just came to mind how Travis Barker apparently sometimes does reach out to bands.

SWIM: Really?

NICK: Watch him see this and be like ‘fuck these people.’

SWIM: He does seem like he follows some stuff, but also he’s married to a Kardashian and busy and probably working on, like, a Vitaminwater collab, so I don’t think he’s fully with it like that. But you never know.

NICK: That’s a good spectrum, though. We always talk about that in the studio. I think I would say the two ends are like… yeah, blink and Death Cab are great. Somewhere in the middle is like Weezer and Elliot Smith.

SWIM: Okay, yeah. We’ll get a full grid going by the end of this like a political spectrum.

BILLY: That’s honestly such a large part of the conversation here is trying to figure that out.

SWIM: Well, I hear a ton of Death Cab, but I’m from Portland too, so I just feel like I’m drawn to that kind of cloudiness. I think that was all over the last EP, specifically. I could just hear that a ton, especially the last song, which I loved. Are you guys cooking up any more seven-minute tracks?

NICK: No, this is all pop music now.

SWIM: [Laughs] Okay. All right. Cool, cool.

NICK: Just kidding. But, yeah, I would say that this song that we’re about to record might be the most pop-punk on the record, but there’s absolutely more Death Cabby moments than ever throughout the whole album.

SWIM: Cool. Love that.

SWIM: Going back to the two Drink Singles, you have said that you just planned to do those two, but was there ever a third beverage concoction that you guys had in mind, or one that people had pitched to you?

NICK: I’ve heard some good ones pitched. The funniest one I can’t even remember if we came up with or not, but I think it was “Malort root beer” or something. “Root beer reposado,” but that’s tequila as well. But no, we didn’t really have any plans to do another drink song.

BILLY: It was just those two, and then you’re done.

NICK: Within the band, I had thought about striking while the iron was hot, like I could write a full Blue Album vibe of drink songs, and we could just put it out. Then, within the band, I think Jake specifically was like, ‘You know, we got a record being written right now, we should probably just focus on that.’ But I’m always like, ‘oh, what if we did this type of album to transition into doing that kind of album.’

I mean, it’s still in the running that we could do just a power pop 30-minute banger that is like the drink songs, but I don’t think we have any plans to. In fact, “espresso lemonade” wasn’t even the plan; that kind of came in later. There was gonna be a B-side to “tequila redbull,” but that B-side is actually now gonna be on this record.

SWIM: What city are you talking about in “espresso lemonade”? Was there a specific place in mind? It’s pretty visual, so I was just wondering what you’re tapping into.

NICK: There’s definitely vibes of New York, because, I mean…

SWIM: It’s expensive.

NICK: Recording here is kind of fun, just going into Manhattan and basically living that espresso lemonade lifestyle. We had moved to Denver shortly before. I had been living in Denver for a decent amount of time before that song was fully written, but it was pretty inspired by that. Denver’s such a cushy place; it’s expensive, but it’s very much that kind of vibe.

SWIM: Yeah. A little off-putting.

NICK: With some of the lyrics, I was trying to reference specific parks or whatever, and the rhymes wouldn’t work out. I did find a coffee shop by a park called Eleanor Park in Houston, or something, and I almost said “spot by Eleanor,” but I feel like that wasn't as forward a lyric as “on Eleanor.”

Now it’s funny because, I won’t specify who, but there is an Eleanor [street] that a very close friend lives on, so I’m there often, and it’s funny because they’re the spot on Eleanor now. So it’s an amalgamation to answer your question.

SWIM: Cool. Yeah, that’s sick.

NICK: I hope to give another three-page answer for the next question.

SWIM: For First time using slang, you had alluded to that EP essentially being a writing exercise based on the album art, which was originally just a picture someone just had sent you guys, but then you went and turned it into those three songs, including the three-act structure of that last one. How did that materialize?

NICK: I’m a fan of people who fully embrace the fact that we live in a time where bands can interact with their fans instantly online. I think a lot of bands either pretend not to see it at all, or they do it too much, but I like doing it just enough. I think, considering Equipment’s sort of like, uh, cult… community? I don’t wanna say “following,” it’s community. But because of that, I’m able to post something, and people interact with it; there’s no mystery there, but it’s rarely intersected with the actual releases so far. Kind of on the same train, Death Grips has done stuff like that in their heyday, just subverting expectations.

When we first saw that picture that became the cover art, we shared it and were just like “lol,” but we knew that no one was gonna expect us to write a whole EP about it, including the person who took the photo. I was like, ‘You know, I have all these random ideas in my head right now, and I kind of think that I just need somewhere for them to go while I’m writing this record.’

SWIM: Yeah. That’s cool.

NICK: And you know, I really like EPs in general, that’s how Equipment kind of got our footing. It’s fun approaching an EP as if it’s a record, ‘cause you can fully flesh it out. I would say First time using slang has its own vibe. Even though all the songs are a little bit different, you can kind of tell it’s us just trying stuff.

SWIM: Yeah. It felt a little more spur-of-the-moment. That’s cool.

NICK: And it was fun—just such a weird album cover, tracklist on the front. I always like that, I think it’s interesting when bands do that.

SWIM: Yeah. I’m sure the person who took that photo was geeked to be immortalized in that way.

NICK: Yeah. They were pretty stoked. I don’t even know their name. I asked how to credit them, and they just told me the name of their band, which is little field.

SWIM: Last year, I caught about two hours of your three-hour all-request acoustic set and thought that rocked. It was cool seeing you, Penny, and Ellie [Hart] reinterpret those songs. Would y’all ever do a full-on acoustic album, or is that too pop-punk to be doing acoustic renditions of stuff?

NICK: This sounds so jaded, but I think it’s just realistic. If we were more popular by now, I would highly consider it, but I think it’s kind of bad to rest on your laurels when you’re still a growing band.

I think of this tour we’re about to go on with The Wonder Years, and every single night we’re gonna be a new band to like a thousand people. So for them to go to your Spotify and the first thing they see is an acoustic album of old songs, which could be weird and bad for growing.

However, I have toyed with doing an album tentatively titled “Versions For Grandma.” Because I think the core of Equipment songs is actually pretty palatable. Just making really pleasant Sufjan Stevens-esque versions of all the songs could be pretty fire, but I don’t know if that’d come out as Equipment or a Nick solo thing. I would probably just want to live in those arrangements and do it all… not myself, but I could see it as more of a solo endeavor, even if it would be like an Equipment release. Or we would do it all as a unit. We don’t really have any plans. I will say I have thought more and more about acoustic touring between bigger tours.

SWIM: I mean, it’s cool to see those songs done that way, and that’s how the band started more or less too. But yeah, that makes sense, you don’t wanna return to the well that early.

NICK: I would love to eventually.

SWIM: Equipment has been on some pretty mega tour lineups in the last few years: Free Throw, Cloud Nothings, The Wonder Years. What are some of the biggest lessons you’ve learned from touring at that scale? Are there any things you saw and balked at and affirmed your decision to keep things at a more DIY scale?

NICK: I’m grateful that, up until this point, we haven’t had to pay a merch cut. I think that’s about to change in less than a month, unfortunately, but hopefully, a lot of venues will look the other way for the support acts.

I think one of the most intimidating tours was Cloud Nothings, not because there would be so many people there, they were all well-attended shows, but it wasn’t like, “oh my God, I’m nervous, all these people,” it’s more that they take the artistry of their music very seriously. I’m not saying any other band that we’ve toured with doesn’t do that, but one thing that the emo scene has going for it is a lack of pretentiousness. No one in Cloud Nothings is pretentious; they’re just writing the music they feel like at any given moment. It just so happens to be more indie-leaning than emo-leaning. It’s a little bit of a darker shade than if you go see a band like Equipment at Faux, where we are like making jokes on stage and leaning into that sort of blink-182 energy we talked about earlier.

It’s hard to be the chameleon that tries to fit in with each sort of band that we’re opening for. I think a good example of synergy with that sort of silly energy was when we toured with Origami Angel because a lot of the ethos of their songs is more carefree, youthful, and nostalgic. Then on the flip side, when we toured the whole country with Mat Kerekes last year, we had a song or two in the setlist that, in hindsight, didn’t make that much sense considering the bill, and I think hurt us more than helped us. So it’s almost like deciding what side of yourself to show is the real puzzle when opening for bigger bands.

SWIM: That was actually a perfect segue, ‘cause the last thing I was gonna ask is tied to what you mentioned earlier about this Wonder Years tour and thinking about how this is the first time all these people are seeing the band potentially. Safe to assume that’s most of the crowd, so how are y’all approaching the set list? It sounds like you’re pretty aware of your perception and the shades of indie rock and pop-punk. I think that Equipment fits into a lot of those buckets super nicely, so how do y’all play that up or decide what’s gonna be part of the set list?

NICK: I think, thankfully, with the Wonder Years, we won’t be punished for playing into our pop-punk side. We were considering cutting “Raptured Trax, pt. 2” from our set list relatively permanently just because we don’t know how representative it is of us going forward, but we figured this is a popular song, and this is probably the crowd that would like the song more than any other tour we’ve opened for, so that got added back in.

I think it would be a mistake to treat our next tour as the promo tour for First time using slang because it is such a niche release in our catalog, so we’re actually just pulling what we view as the best songs from our whole discography. Just a good in-between of what’s popular, what we like to play, and what we think we sound best playing.

SWIM: I’m trying to think of a suitable way to end this that’s not just spilling the beans on the new album or just ‘come catch us on tour,’ but just a way to point towards the future a little bit and what y’all are gearing up for in 2026.

NICK: We’re being pretty transparent about the album, or at least as much as we know. I can say that we’re gonna wait until it feels right to release it and, you know, the vision of the album, when all that stuff that explains everything is ready, that’s when it’ll come out.

I really do understand people who think first time using slang or even “tequila red bull” are a downgrade from our other stuff. I think that’s subjective, but I think everything we’ve gone through as a band has led up to this record. For now, I can say that anyone who thinks that this album is worse than any of our old albums, I would say this will be the wrongest they’ve been about that opinion.

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April 23: The Unofficial Liberation Weekend preshow in which Caroline watches the trans girls of DC two step to folk music

April 24th – Day 1: In which Caroline meets her heroes, has a cheerleading squad, and thinks about God

April 25th – Day 2: In which Caroline aids the downfall of capitalism, rediscovers her inner child, and guesses which band member has hemorrhoids

April 26th – Day 3: In which Caroline learns about the South, wishes she could dodge parking tickets, and takes flight

Swim Into The Sound

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