When Samuel and I show up at Two Worlds Recording Studio in Queens, New York, we happen to be approaching the front door right as studio owner Billy Mannino and Equipment frontman Nick Zander are stepping out to the street. The two of them were making a quick run to the market across the street for some toiletries, and the two of us were happy to tag along to get a further taste of the Whitestone neighborhood. This funny timing is the latest in a long series of serendipities that had to fall into place for this interview to happen. On my end, I happened to be in New York at the same time as the group, photographer Samuel Leon happened to be available to snap some pics, and the band was kind enough to let the two of us into the studio as they were putting together their forthcoming third LP.

We joined the pair as they selected items from the store’s rear wall, where illuminated cooler shelves had been repurposed to house a wide array of cleaning supplies and laundry detergents. We shot the shit as they checked out and returned to Two Worlds, which sits at the end of a long, liminal hallway of similar studio spaces.

If it wasn’t clear immediately upon entering, Two Worlds Studio is hallowed emo ground. Framed on the wall are vinyl LPs from local legends like Oso Oso and Macseal, as well as more recent additions to the Emo Canon like String Theory by TRSH and That’s What Friends Are For, the three-way split from saturdays at your place, Summerbruise, and SHOPLIFTER. On nearby shelves sit more yet-to-be-framed recent releases from Kerosene Heights and red sun. Equipment are already among these ranks; over the last couple of years, they recorded their two Drink Singles “tequila redbull” and “espresso lemonade” with Mannino, as well as last year’s surprise EP First time using slang.

Under the watchful eye of a crocheted Mr. Met figurine and surrounded by cases of Yerba Mate cans, I picked Nick’s brain about Equipment’s mindset going into this new record, how the last few years have treated them, and what it’s like scaling their touring operation from DIY spaces to larger rooms.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

SWIM: First off, thanks for having us in the studio. I’ve loved the Drink Singles and First time using slang. It seems like the response to those has been great. Has dropping those smaller one-offs helped shape this new album in any way?

NICK: I would say those are the two extremes. There’s poppy Equipment, I would say “tequila redbull” and “espresso lemonade” is that, and then it got pretty weird on our last EP. I think some people were like, ‘I don’t know about this version of Equipment,’ and I’m okay with that because I don’t think it’s representative of the band as a whole. All the pieces of Equipment’s past are gonna be in the next record. I do think it is the weirdest one so far, but hopefully should flow the best.

SWIM: That’s awesome. I was curious if there were any genres that you’re hoping people start ascribing to the band with this new LP, or any new sounds that y’all are trying to pull through a little bit more? I mean, I don’t even think it’s fair to say Equipment has been “full emo” for the last few years. There’s pop-punk and indie stuff, but is there anything that you guys are consciously trying to pull in that feels new genre-wise or influence-wise?

BILLY: There’s so little emo on this record.

SWIM: I would say, as an arc, that you guys have been pointed that way for a while.

BILLY: Equipment is an indie rock band.

NICK: Yeah. I think it goes quite a few places on this album that are like… I dunno about “more emotional,” but the thing is, most music genres have emotion in them. If someone were to look up ‘Midwest emo playlist,’ I think there’s like one, maybe two songs on this record that would fit, and even then, it’d be fake emo.

SWIM: As coined by Summerbruise. Yeah. No, that’s great.

NICK: I’m trying to think of what songs they would even be. There are a few tap riffs here and there, but mainly, we were like, ‘How do we make guitars sound cool and have it be catchy?’ How do we trick people into thinking something is catchy when it’s written like brain vomit?

This is maybe the worst news to certain people, but more like 2000s Indie. There’s even a song that’s like MGMT vibes a little bit, which is kind of crazy. There is more synth on this record, but it’s not like delving into actual pop music necessarily; it’s more like we’re trying to keep that catchy side that people who like Equipment like.

SWIM: Who’s playing synth?

NICK: We haven’t laid down any yet. There’s a scratch in there, but it’ll just be me on the record. We don’t know what we’re gonna do in concert yet.

SWIM: Okay. That’s exciting.

NICK: Penny [Guarantee] is flying in on Friday, and we’ll be back-and-forth doing guitars. There aren’t defined lead or rhythm parts. It’s just like, ‘Penny, do you wanna do this part?’ or Penny will be like, ‘Nick, I don’t want to record this part, but here’s my idea.’ We’re sort of just like a committee of guitar.

SWIM: I feel like even live, y’all trade off pretty well. I think the last time I saw Equipment (other than the Swarmyard acoustic set) was at Fauxchella, and you were both locked in. It was a lot of fun to see the guitar trade-off, and Penny adds so much to the shredding and stage presence. I think that’s cool that comes through on the record too.

NICK: Yeah, and live who’s to say who’s actually gonna play what? There are many parts I recorded that Penny now plays and vice versa. Penny actually played bass on Alt. Account, ‘cause they were still the bassist at the time, but everything since “tequila redbull” has been full-band.

Jake [Pachasa] is our drummer, who already recorded drums in July. He’s running sound for Mat Kerekes’ band right now on tour, so he’s doing his thing. It’s just a super busy time because we’re doing this record, Jake’s on tour, then we’re going on tour with Wonder Years, and then right after that we’re touring with Dear Maryanne. Then, after I get back from that tour, we are moving from Denver to Cleveland.

SWIM: That’s awesome. Good for y’all.

NICK: A lot of shit going on. Not a lot of money coming in at the moment, but that’s okay.

SWIM: Well, hopefully tour swings things back a little. Maybe the new album will help, but yeah, a lot of logistics and moving parts. That’s very cool, though.

SWIM: What was on your mind most going into this record? I’m thinking about Alt. Account, and I feel like that was such a concerted effort to do “a record” in contrast to Ruthless Sun, so what would you say is the biggest thing that you’re keeping in your head?

NICK: I think we wanted to wait until we had enough energy to not half-ass it. I feel the same way about how the album is presented after it’s recorded, too. I think that is equally important to recording it and writing. I think a lot of what made Alt. Account special was our relationship with our listeners at that point, the album art, the singles we picked, the music videos, the whole concept.

SWIM: Yeah. Very intentional.

NICK: I think I was getting lost in the noise a little bit. I was thinking about what people might want or what might get us more listeners, and I’m glad I haven’t really compromised any of that. Instead of scratching Equipment and moving on to, not a different band necessarily, but like a different version of Equipment, I’ve just decided that we should take what we already have and let our weaknesses be our strengths, you know? Like people saying, “this isn’t emo!” Now I’m just sort of saying I don’t care anymore.

You know, we’re in the emo scene, but I don’t feel like I need to be whinier in the songs. I don’t feel like I need to get better at guitar tapping; everyone’s already really good at guitar tapping. I feel like people like Equipment because of the lyrics and the choruses and the chemistry in the band and the spirit. I don’t think we need to conform; if anything, we should just keep going, and if it doesn’t work, then I guess it just doesn’t work, you know?

SWIM: Yeah. I love that.

NICK: But you know, it’s a risk.

SWIM: Yeah, I’m picking up what you’re putting down. That’s cool.

SWIM: Billy, I guess you'd better close your ears for this one. I view Equipment very much as existing on a spectrum. I have a playlist of y’all’s songs that remind me of Death Cab for one reason or another, including those covers, and, to me, there’s a spectrum for this band with blink-182 on one side and Death Cab on the other.

If you got the chance to do the next record or next EP or a one-off single with Chris Walla or someone from blink’s camp, who would you pick?

NICK: Definitely not fucking Travis Barker. Are you kidding me?

SWIM: [Laughs] You could do Mark Hoppus if you want, he does some production stuff.

NICK: He did produce Motion City soundtrack…

SWIM: Yeah. So that’s kind of up Quippy’s alley.

NICK: I don’t think either of them really know anything anymore. Which is okay, they did what they needed to do.

SWIM: But if they reached out and were like, ‘I love your stuff. I wanna record something’ you’d just stick to what you’re doing, which is cool.

NICK: Well, that’s really tough, ‘cause obviously the dollar signs are working with blink-182.

SWIM: Yeah, yeah. You could be opening for MGK next tour, for all you know…

NICK: [Laughs] Ugh, true. I think MGK has more money than Ratboys, I would argue, so if I wanted more money… That’s tough, but actually it’s not really.

SWIM: Well, it sounds like your answer would be neither, so that’s totally fair.

NICK: No, I would work with Chris Walla for sure.

BILLY: I bring that up more than anybody that you should bring Chris Walla into the studio.

NICK: Yeah, Billy wants a collab.

SWIM: Get him in here!

BILLY: I wanna do an Equipment co-production with Chris Walla so bad.

SWIM: I think that would rock.

NICK: That’s the one thing that would bring Billy to Seattle for five months.

BILLY: No, I won’t.

NICK: Just kidding. I dunno if that would get him off the East Coast. And bring Chris from, uh, Norway.

No, I don’t think I would really like… Okay. Don’t– Travis Barker’s gonna see this now. Let me rephrase my answer… I think for our future music, I see Chris Walla as a more appropriate option.

SWIM: [Laughs] Okay. That’s a very, uh, political answer.

NICK: [Laughs] That’s gonna be the most boring answer.

SWIM: I swear I’m not doing this to make you look bad; this isn’t Gotcha DIY journalism.

NICK: It just came to mind how Travis Barker apparently sometimes does reach out to bands.

SWIM: Really?

NICK: Watch him see this and be like ‘fuck these people.’

SWIM: He does seem like he follows some stuff, but also he’s married to a Kardashian and busy and probably working on, like, a Vitaminwater collab, so I don’t think he’s fully with it like that. But you never know.

NICK: That’s a good spectrum, though. We always talk about that in the studio. I think I would say the two ends are like… yeah, blink and Death Cab are great. Somewhere in the middle is like Weezer and Elliot Smith.

SWIM: Okay, yeah. We’ll get a full grid going by the end of this like a political spectrum.

BILLY: That’s honestly such a large part of the conversation here is trying to figure that out.

SWIM: Well, I hear a ton of Death Cab, but I’m from Portland too, so I just feel like I’m drawn to that kind of cloudiness. I think that was all over the last EP, specifically. I could just hear that a ton, especially the last song, which I loved. Are you guys cooking up any more seven-minute tracks?

NICK: No, this is all pop music now.

SWIM: [Laughs] Okay. All right. Cool, cool.

NICK: Just kidding. But, yeah, I would say that this song that we’re about to record might be the most pop-punk on the record, but there’s absolutely more Death Cabby moments than ever throughout the whole album.

SWIM: Cool. Love that.

SWIM: Going back to the two Drink Singles, you have said that you just planned to do those two, but was there ever a third beverage concoction that you guys had in mind, or one that people had pitched to you?

NICK: I’ve heard some good ones pitched. The funniest one I can’t even remember if we came up with or not, but I think it was “Malort root beer” or something. “Root beer reposado,” but that’s tequila as well. But no, we didn’t really have any plans to do another drink song.

BILLY: It was just those two, and then you’re done.

NICK: Within the band, I had thought about striking while the iron was hot, like I could write a full Blue Album vibe of drink songs, and we could just put it out. Then, within the band, I think Jake specifically was like, ‘You know, we got a record being written right now, we should probably just focus on that.’ But I’m always like, ‘oh, what if we did this type of album to transition into doing that kind of album.’

I mean, it’s still in the running that we could do just a power pop 30-minute banger that is like the drink songs, but I don’t think we have any plans to. In fact, “espresso lemonade” wasn’t even the plan; that kind of came in later. There was gonna be a B-side to “tequila redbull,” but that B-side is actually now gonna be on this record.

SWIM: What city are you talking about in “espresso lemonade”? Was there a specific place in mind? It’s pretty visual, so I was just wondering what you’re tapping into.

NICK: There’s definitely vibes of New York, because, I mean…

SWIM: It’s expensive.

NICK: Recording here is kind of fun, just going into Manhattan and basically living that espresso lemonade lifestyle. We had moved to Denver shortly before. I had been living in Denver for a decent amount of time before that song was fully written, but it was pretty inspired by that. Denver’s such a cushy place; it’s expensive, but it’s very much that kind of vibe.

SWIM: Yeah. A little off-putting.

NICK: With some of the lyrics, I was trying to reference specific parks or whatever, and the rhymes wouldn’t work out. I did find a coffee shop by a park called Eleanor Park in Houston, or something, and I almost said “spot by Eleanor,” but I feel like that wasn't as forward a lyric as “on Eleanor.”

Now it’s funny because, I won’t specify who, but there is an Eleanor [street] that a very close friend lives on, so I’m there often, and it’s funny because they’re the spot on Eleanor now. So it’s an amalgamation to answer your question.

SWIM: Cool. Yeah, that’s sick.

NICK: I hope to give another three-page answer for the next question.

SWIM: For First time using slang, you had alluded to that EP essentially being a writing exercise based on the album art, which was originally just a picture someone just had sent you guys, but then you went and turned it into those three songs, including the three-act structure of that last one. How did that materialize?

NICK: I’m a fan of people who fully embrace the fact that we live in a time where bands can interact with their fans instantly online. I think a lot of bands either pretend not to see it at all, or they do it too much, but I like doing it just enough. I think, considering Equipment’s sort of like, uh, cult… community? I don’t wanna say “following,” it’s community. But because of that, I’m able to post something, and people interact with it; there’s no mystery there, but it’s rarely intersected with the actual releases so far. Kind of on the same train, Death Grips has done stuff like that in their heyday, just subverting expectations.

When we first saw that picture that became the cover art, we shared it and were just like “lol,” but we knew that no one was gonna expect us to write a whole EP about it, including the person who took the photo. I was like, ‘You know, I have all these random ideas in my head right now, and I kind of think that I just need somewhere for them to go while I’m writing this record.’

SWIM: Yeah. That’s cool.

NICK: And you know, I really like EPs in general, that’s how Equipment kind of got our footing. It’s fun approaching an EP as if it’s a record, ‘cause you can fully flesh it out. I would say First time using slang has its own vibe. Even though all the songs are a little bit different, you can kind of tell it’s us just trying stuff.

SWIM: Yeah. It felt a little more spur-of-the-moment. That’s cool.

NICK: And it was fun—just such a weird album cover, tracklist on the front. I always like that, I think it’s interesting when bands do that.

SWIM: Yeah. I’m sure the person who took that photo was geeked to be immortalized in that way.

NICK: Yeah. They were pretty stoked. I don’t even know their name. I asked how to credit them, and they just told me the name of their band, which is little field.

SWIM: Last year, I caught about two hours of your three-hour all-request acoustic set and thought that rocked. It was cool seeing you, Penny, and Ellie [Hart] reinterpret those songs. Would y’all ever do a full-on acoustic album, or is that too pop-punk to be doing acoustic renditions of stuff?

NICK: This sounds so jaded, but I think it’s just realistic. If we were more popular by now, I would highly consider it, but I think it’s kind of bad to rest on your laurels when you’re still a growing band.

I think of this tour we’re about to go on with The Wonder Years, and every single night we’re gonna be a new band to like a thousand people. So for them to go to your Spotify and the first thing they see is an acoustic album of old songs, which could be weird and bad for growing.

However, I have toyed with doing an album tentatively titled “Versions For Grandma.” Because I think the core of Equipment songs is actually pretty palatable. Just making really pleasant Sufjan Stevens-esque versions of all the songs could be pretty fire, but I don’t know if that’d come out as Equipment or a Nick solo thing. I would probably just want to live in those arrangements and do it all… not myself, but I could see it as more of a solo endeavor, even if it would be like an Equipment release. Or we would do it all as a unit. We don’t really have any plans. I will say I have thought more and more about acoustic touring between bigger tours.

SWIM: I mean, it’s cool to see those songs done that way, and that’s how the band started more or less too. But yeah, that makes sense, you don’t wanna return to the well that early.

NICK: I would love to eventually.

SWIM: Equipment has been on some pretty mega tour lineups in the last few years: Free Throw, Cloud Nothings, The Wonder Years. What are some of the biggest lessons you’ve learned from touring at that scale? Are there any things you saw and balked at and affirmed your decision to keep things at a more DIY scale?

NICK: I’m grateful that, up until this point, we haven’t had to pay a merch cut. I think that’s about to change in less than a month, unfortunately, but hopefully, a lot of venues will look the other way for the support acts.

I think one of the most intimidating tours was Cloud Nothings, not because there would be so many people there, they were all well-attended shows, but it wasn’t like, “oh my God, I’m nervous, all these people,” it’s more that they take the artistry of their music very seriously. I’m not saying any other band that we’ve toured with doesn’t do that, but one thing that the emo scene has going for it is a lack of pretentiousness. No one in Cloud Nothings is pretentious; they’re just writing the music they feel like at any given moment. It just so happens to be more indie-leaning than emo-leaning. It’s a little bit of a darker shade than if you go see a band like Equipment at Faux, where we are like making jokes on stage and leaning into that sort of blink-182 energy we talked about earlier.

It’s hard to be the chameleon that tries to fit in with each sort of band that we’re opening for. I think a good example of synergy with that sort of silly energy was when we toured with Origami Angel because a lot of the ethos of their songs is more carefree, youthful, and nostalgic. Then on the flip side, when we toured the whole country with Mat Kerekes last year, we had a song or two in the setlist that, in hindsight, didn’t make that much sense considering the bill, and I think hurt us more than helped us. So it’s almost like deciding what side of yourself to show is the real puzzle when opening for bigger bands.

SWIM: That was actually a perfect segue, ‘cause the last thing I was gonna ask is tied to what you mentioned earlier about this Wonder Years tour and thinking about how this is the first time all these people are seeing the band potentially. Safe to assume that’s most of the crowd, so how are y’all approaching the set list? It sounds like you’re pretty aware of your perception and the shades of indie rock and pop-punk. I think that Equipment fits into a lot of those buckets super nicely, so how do y’all play that up or decide what’s gonna be part of the set list?

NICK: I think, thankfully, with the Wonder Years, we won’t be punished for playing into our pop-punk side. We were considering cutting “Raptured Trax, pt. 2” from our set list relatively permanently just because we don’t know how representative it is of us going forward, but we figured this is a popular song, and this is probably the crowd that would like the song more than any other tour we’ve opened for, so that got added back in.

I think it would be a mistake to treat our next tour as the promo tour for First time using slang because it is such a niche release in our catalog, so we’re actually just pulling what we view as the best songs from our whole discography. Just a good in-between of what’s popular, what we like to play, and what we think we sound best playing.

SWIM: I’m trying to think of a suitable way to end this that’s not just spilling the beans on the new album or just ‘come catch us on tour,’ but just a way to point towards the future a little bit and what y’all are gearing up for in 2026.

NICK: We’re being pretty transparent about the album, or at least as much as we know. I can say that we’re gonna wait until it feels right to release it and, you know, the vision of the album, when all that stuff that explains everything is ready, that’s when it’ll come out.

I really do understand people who think first time using slang or even “tequila red bull” are a downgrade from our other stuff. I think that’s subjective, but I think everything we’ve gone through as a band has led up to this record. For now, I can say that anyone who thinks that this album is worse than any of our old albums, I would say this will be the wrongest they’ve been about that opinion.

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Quippy in Queens: An Interview with Nick Zander of Equipment